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Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by loeg on Thursday March 15, 2018 @11:37PM (#16598422)
Wind and solar need tons and tons of land to power our energy needs, and the developing world will need more and more power to escape poverty. Solar panels on every house might be sufficient, but it's far more expensive and consumes far more area than nuclear. We need cheap and abundant nuclear power to bring our carbon emissions down without wasting tons of acreage (something like an area the size of the US to power the world, per Steven Pinker) on power generation.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by toomuchtodo on Thursday March 15, 2018 @11:40PM (#16598439)
This comes up in every thread, but it's not realistic. It takes a decade and a billion dollars (at least) to build new nuclear power plants. It's not happening, at least not in the time frame we need to keep global warming below 4C (2C is a pipe dream at this point). [1]

It would only take 0.6 percent of total US land mass covered in solar to power the entire country (about 100 miles by 100 miles). The batteries to back that energy production would only be about 1 square mile. That doesn't take into account residential rooftop solar already producing. Nor wind turbine parks in the middle of nowhere that contribute to farmer and rancher incomes. Offshore wind can be sited anywhere along the costs outside of shipping lanes, far enough off in the distance to not be seen but close enough to keep transmission costs reasonable. We are awash in clean, renewable energy.

To your point about the developing world, India is aggressively deploying solar, and is 4 years ahead of its solar capacity targets.

Solar and wind are ramping on curves somewhere between linear and exponential. They can be turned up in months, not years. They can be sited almost anywhere. They are what is going to win the day.

[1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/has-us-nuclear-powe...

Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by loeg on Friday March 16, 2018 @12:03AM (#16598540)
Mass-produced tiny reactors reduce capital cost and construction time. Even without that, energy for 10 years from now still matters.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by toomuchtodo on Friday March 16, 2018 @12:06AM (#16598548)
Show me a mass produced tiny reactor in production. If not in production, provide a solvent business that can produce and maintain these reactors.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/mike-jacobs/solar-vs-nuclear

"In comparison with nuclear, the amount of solar power built in 2016, taking into account how many hours each can operate each day, is the equivalent of more than 3 new nuclear plants.

To dive in a little deeper: let’s use a 25 percent capacity factor for new solar, making the 14,626 MW installed equivalent to 3,650 MW of theoretically perfectly running nuclear plants. The Westinghouse AP 1000 units under construction for the last 7-10+ years produce about 1,100 MW. So, in one year, solar additions were equal to what takes more than 7 years to build. The difference in speed of deployment is why UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists) is clear that nuclear power isn’t a near-term climate solution."

So if you're not going to take my (rando HN poster's) word for it, the Union of Concerned Scientists seems somewhat reputable.

Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by djrogers on Friday March 16, 2018 @01:02AM (#16598747)
Mass-produced tiny reactors exist in sci-fi, and maybe some potential long-term future. What we have now are ‘renewables’ so let’s be realistic.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by slededit on Friday March 16, 2018 @12:06PM (#16601536)
And also US Navy submarines and large surface vessels.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by djrogers on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:55PM (#16603082)
Those are neither mass-produced, nor tiny - they produce 50-500MW of power.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by slededit on Friday March 16, 2018 @03:46PM (#16603498)
The SG9 in the latest Virginia class submarines are only 30MW. As of 2001 The Navy has constructed over 235 nuclear reactors, with many more since. An average of >5 per year. For Nuclear reactors that is mass production.

Also because of the way the Navy works their reactors are less bespoke for each ship than traditional land based reactors - and better fit the mass production model. This is something that could scale.

1. http://mragheb.com/NPRE%20402%20ME%20405%20Nuclear%20Power%2...

Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by wongarsu on Friday March 16, 2018 @09:30AM (#16600474)
And how are you going to grow a hyothetical "tiny nuclear reactor" buisiness faster than solar and wind are growing right now? By the time development is done, operating permits are sorted out and production is ramped up the idea will hardly be profitable, and certainly not nessesary anymore.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by imtringued on Friday March 16, 2018 @07:26AM (#16599913)
Nuclear power is simply too expensive.
Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by paranoidrobot on Friday March 16, 2018 @12:40AM (#16598676)
Both Wind and Solar can in many cases be co-located with other land usage.

Wind farms go great on agricultural farms - they tend to have wide open spaces, and the actual footprint of a tower can have minor impact upon the productivity of the field.

Solar generation goes great on both residential and in particular - commercial buildings, over the tops of parking lots, etc - which has the dual effect of producing power and reducing the heating of the underlying building/parked cars (great for reducing the need for air conditioning)

Your average suburban home has enough roof area to produce either all of, or a significant fraction of, it's own energy for a moderate household.

Marginal-use land (hilly areas), coastal areas, and off-shore are also generally good areas for windfarms too.

Re:US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save... by PhantomGremlin on Friday March 16, 2018 @05:14AM (#16599469)
Wind and solar need tons and tons of land to power our energy needs

Elon Musk begs to differ. Here's something he said: “If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,” Musk said at at the event in Rhode Island. “The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.” https://www.inverse.com/article/34239-how-many-solar-panels-...

something like an area the size of the US to power the world, per Steven Pinker

Not to slag on Pinker, but Musk has proved himself to be a hell of a lot better visionary in the real world than most anyone else, and that includes pop authors.

Somewhere else I saw a claim of 0.6% of US land area needed for US power needs. Even if it's 1%, no BFD. Let's assume that many areas of the world don't have as good solar irradiance as the USA. So maybe it's 2% in some other places. Still, no BFD.

IMO the biggest problem with current nuclear is that it's run by utility companies. Those places aren't staffed by the world's brightest bulbs (heh heh). Allowing morons like that to build and manage nuclear plants is akin to allowing toddlers to play with live hand grenades. Most of the time they don't pull the pin, but when they do the results aren't pretty.

PV solar is simplicity itself. No moving parts. Linear economies of scale: 2x the panels means 2x the cost and 2x the power.

OTOH Southern Co. is now saying that the two nuclear reactors they are trying to complete will cost more than $25 billion. https://www.myajc.com/business/southern-says-vogtle-costs-ex... Oops.