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Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by tptacek on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @02:19PM (#16538992)
This comment is written as if it says something important, but really doesn't say anything at all.

It would be monumentally newsworthy if there was clear guidance that Bitcoin and Ethereum "weren't securities" (more generally: that businesses that simply deal in Bitcoin were generally outside the purview of securities regulation). But we do not in fact know that right now.

No expert believes that you can look at the list of current enforcement actions and reliably predict the SEC's next actions. They could keep taking out scammers for the next several years, getting practice by picking out the low-hanging fruit. Or, they could at literally any moment come down like a ton of bricks on the industry's most mainstream participants. We simply don't know.

What we do know is that "coin-mediated" finance is enabling thousands of people to launch investment-driven businesses who would previously not have been able to do that before, not because of a lack of technical ability but because the laws made it prohibitively expensive. Those laws have not been repealed. A lot of reasonable people are waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by cal5k on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @02:56PM (#16539286)
I'm personally very keen on "coin-mediated" finance. However, that doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to believe I can flout securities law without consequences. A public offering is still a public offering when you couch it behind a token, no matter how cleverly constructed your whitepaper.

If the SEC was going to come down like a ton of bricks they would have done so already. I could be wrong, but their actions seem to demonstrate that they're taking a very measured, careful approach to coming up with a regulatory framework.

My comment was a reaction to other comments, not the statement from the SEC - which actually doesn't say much either.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by tptacek on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:35PM (#16539611)
I think reasonable people can disagree about the likelihood of upcoming enforcement actions. The only place where I feel entitled to get shouty about things is when people suggest that it's clear what the SEC is going to do next. I think it's easy to make a case that it's anything but clear.

I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable proclaiming with any certainty that Bitcoin or Ethereum or even ICOs were definitely going to fall afoul of the SEC. My understand is that the SEC is generally a lot smaller than "we" think it is and it's sort of a random function. Cryptocurrency is super important to HN, but the SEC's definition of "systemically important" is different than ours.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by AlexCoventry on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:58PM (#16540324)
> My understand is that the SEC is generally a lot smaller than "we" think it is and it's sort of a random function. Cryptocurrency is super important to HN, but the SEC's definition of "systemically important" is different than ours.

Their mandate is to protect unsophisticated investors. That's why they weren't particularly interested in Madoff, and why the rules are so much laxer if you target "accredited investors."

Given that mandate, I think it's highly unlikely that they're going to go after romping, runaway successes. They'll focus on blatant pig-in-a-pokes.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by cal5k on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:09PM (#16541448)
I think they're sort of caught between a rock and a hard place - a lot of "retail investors" have bought into cryptocurrency at this point. Aggressive action by the SEC to crack down on digital currency would adversely affect the price of said currency, almost certainly harming "retail investors" in the process.

I'm using quotes because that's code for unsophisticated investors, the very group the SEC is supposed to protect.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by heartbreak on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:27PM (#16539538)
> If the SEC was going to come down like a ton of bricks they would have done so already.

Could you elaborate? Why do you think that the SEC has made a final policy decision on crypto/ICO?

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by Alex3917 on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @02:58PM (#16539303)
> It would be monumentally newsworthy if there was clear guidance that Bitcoin and Ethereum "weren't securities"

The SEC refers people to the Howey Test in all of their statements, which is fairly clear guidance that they don't consider Bitcoin to be a security. With something like Ethereum they're not going to say, since something can alternate between being a security and not being a security, so any sort of specific guidance wouldn't be especially meaningful.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by hueving on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:09PM (#16539376)
>This comment is written as if it says something important, but really doesn't say anything at all.

It's ambiguous what 'it' refers to (comment vs. the article) in your sentence. If you meant the comment, then I disagree because it doesn't pretend to say something 'important', it just points out that the article doesn't introduce anything new for people doing things that aren't clearly a scam under existing laws.

If you meant the article doesn't say anything important, then I agree and I don't think the comment you replied to says anything different.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by cal5k on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:11PM (#16539394)
Hmmm, very good point - I think I might have misinterpreted that line. The danger of an unclear subject ;-)

Agreed. The main thrust of my comment was that this is a non-article, and yet it seemed to be inviting commenters to lay out their pet theories on the validity of cryptocurrency as though they were validated somehow by the article's contents.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by simik on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @02:34PM (#16539123)
Now we need a decentralized SEC, or some sort of crypto/ICO-centric auditors.
Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by jerf on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @02:53PM (#16539256)
The problem is that you need a decentralized SEC, that somehow obviates the existing SEC, and all other similar government-empowered agencies all around the world. Good luck with that. You've got a long road to hoe just to convince people that's a good idea; it certainly isn't obvious to me. Without that power inevitably just collapses back to the central authority for all kinds of reasons. (Many of which are the reason why the stable solution in the existing economy is indeed the existence of a distinct SEC.)
Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by aje403 on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @02:44PM (#16539186)
Exactly - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Perhaps we can tap the Winklevii's expertise to audit the SEC for malfeasance

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by maaaats on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:12PM (#16539398)
> This comment is written as if it says something important, but really doesn't say anything at all.

What?

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by cal5k on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:18PM (#16539439)
I believe this is simply an unclear subject - "it" refers to the article, not my comment.

I will admit I initially took offence, though, because I rather like tptacek.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by tptacek on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:32PM (#16539584)
Lik-ed. :)

Sorry, I'm a coin skeptic.

Re:Statement on Potentially Unlawful Online Platforms for Tr... by cal5k on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @08:00PM (#16541386)
Hah. It takes more than an ambiguous subject to get on my bad side.

If you start badmouthing Canadians, though, different story bub ;-)