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Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by whatshisface on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:32AM (#16527082)
Words are only useful insofar as they point to groups of entities that the speaker and listener agree are being pointed to. So, we should ask "what is the most useful definition of life?" It's a short word, so it's valuable real-estate. What should the definition of life be?

It's easy to get wrapped up into discussions about words, but don't forget that the things they point to is what's really interesting.

Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by jamesrcole on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @04:03AM (#16527743)
I agree. I think a source of confusion is the following.

Everyone has built up, over their lifetime, an implicit mental notion of "life", which is based upon the sorts of characteristics of things they classify as being alive. Many (I'd say most) people think this mental notion is some objective category that exists external to their mind, some thing that has a kind of essence that is shared by all the instances of life. They see the task of defining life as defining the essence of this category, and see there being an objective question as to whether something (e.g. a kind of virus) fits this category.

But this is to confuse a mental construct with what is out there. There are the objective properties of things like different types of viruses, different types of bacteria, of different types of mammals, and of all other natural phenomena. You can talk about what the similarities and differences are between the objective properties of a type of virus and a type of bacteria, for example, and there are simpler kinds of phenomena vs more complex ones, but there's no actual "life" category out there, separate from our mental constructs, to be objectively defined.

Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by lawlessone on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @09:57AM (#16529191)
would it be safer to say everything in on spectrum between alive and not alive?

Even chemicals "evolve"

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chemical-evolution

Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by DelightOne on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @05:03AM (#16527933)
Thats "The Categories Were Made For Man, Not Man For The Categories".

Sb trying to push sb else to use a definition meets the second part of the sentence.

Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by omginternets on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @07:42AM (#16528433)
>Sb trying to push sb else to use a definition meets the second part of the sentence.

This is post-modernism in thin disguise.

Certain categorizations can be more valuable (practical, useful, just, etc) than others, in which case it's reasonable to rally for their use over other, less valueable, categorizations.

Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by DelightOne on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @08:47AM (#16528795)
I don't know about the post-modernism thingy.

To the second part: To one practical is to the other unpractical. To one just is to another unjust.

To push certain categories over others just says to me you want them to be in your frame(practical, useful for you I guess?).

And to not give an argument on the usefulness is to hide intention. But I'm not too firm on that yet.

Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by whatshisface on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @10:12AM (#16529277)
Some categories are just completely impractical, for example the category of "all objects except for my dog and its kibble, and excluding those that came in to existence on an even-numbered Gregorian year." Language is an application of signaling theory and there are lots of statements we can make about it. (For example it would be a bad idea to re-define the word "good" to mean that one above.)
Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by woodandsteel on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @07:52PM (#16533531)
It's post-modernism only if you assume that human beings have no set, general psychological characteristics and are entirely the product of socialization. Otherwise it is pragmatism.
Re:New Giant Viruses Further Blur the Definition of Life by omginternets on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @05:46PM (#16540702)
Huh?

It's most assuredly post-modernist because it implicitly assumes that all categories are equal in value (i.e.: that no category is better than another), and that the decision is at it's core a power-struggle (i.e.: oppressive to the loser).

This is, again, a tired and fruitless approach.