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Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @12:14PM (#16503500)
The existence of WebUSB is awful. Why anyone ever thought it was a good idea to let JavaScript touch your USB devices is beyond me.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Friday March 02, 2018 @12:47PM (#16503875)
It's simple: allowing sandboxed code to request limited access to a USB device is more secure than having users install native, unsandboxed code with access to everything on their PC.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by tedunangst on Friday March 02, 2018 @12:55PM (#16503969)
Assuming the sandbox works. If the sandbox is porous, the attack surface balloons from apps I choose to install to every link I click.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Friday March 02, 2018 @02:26PM (#16504800)
Not every link you click. Only sites that you grant access to the necessary attack surface. The Web USB API can't be attacked by sites that you haven't granted access to it.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by codedokode on Friday March 02, 2018 @04:06PM (#16505687)
What if that privileged website has XSS vulnerability?
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Thursday March 08, 2018 @12:37PM (#16546010)
Then the attacker gets access to that USB device. (And only that USB device.)

What if your unsandboxed native USB utility has an RCE vulnerability?

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @01:51PM (#16504525)
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Friday March 02, 2018 @02:27PM (#16504811)
As opposed to native desktop apps, which get all the same permissions by default that a web app requires a zero-day sandbox escape vulnerability to achieve?
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @02:31PM (#16504846)
Native desktop apps are limited in number are nowhere near the dumpster fire the web is. My desktop isn't routinely downloading and executing payloads from the web. They're clearly different.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Friday March 02, 2018 @02:46PM (#16504980)
This is about the Web USB API, not the entire web in general. Are you routinely granting web pages access to your USB devices? That's not a permission that web apps get by default (unlike with native desktop apps btw).

It comes down to this: if you ever found yourself in a situation where you needed to connect a USB device to a remote service, would you prefer to download that service's unsandboxed native code to your PC and execute it? Or execute some JS in the browser sandbox and grant it limited access to that one specific device?

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by cestith on Friday March 02, 2018 @04:14PM (#16505749)
There are operating systems which don't by default give every application running as every user account access to every storage device.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @02:51PM (#16505034)
>if you ever found yourself in a situation where you needed to connect a USB device to a remote service

I have never found myself in that situation. That sounds like a really silly idea.

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Friday March 02, 2018 @03:11PM (#16505242)
Then click "deny", or (in the case of a native app) refuse to install the executable. Either way you're safe.

For those that _do_ require [such use cases][1] though; they can now do so without needing to expose their system to an unsandboxed native app.

[1]: https://wicg.github.io/webusb/#motivating-applications

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @03:16PM (#16505287)
I know to do that. How about my grandma, who just clicks whatever button looks like it'll make the message go away sooner?

The web is a disaster and WebUSB is a prime piece of evidence supporting this.

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Ajedi32 on Friday March 02, 2018 @03:35PM (#16505444)
Would that include the "Run" button on a downloaded executable?

While obviously we want to do as much as we can to discourage users from shooting themselves in the foot, there are limits. At some point, eventually you _do_ have to trust that the user knows what he's doing.

Giving users a choice on when to allow a page access to one specific USB device is not a "disaster".

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by jperras on Friday March 02, 2018 @07:51PM (#16507095)
Just because you've never dreamed up a situation where it might be useful doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @08:37PM (#16507307)
Clarification: I've never wanted to do that in a web browser.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Spivak on Friday March 02, 2018 @03:05PM (#16505186)
Attaching a bootable USB drive to a HTML5 based KVM? Sure it could be accomplished in other ways buy why not this way?
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Sir_Cmpwn on Friday March 02, 2018 @03:10PM (#16505236)
Why an HTML5 based KVM? A desktop app would be great for that!
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by blitmap on Friday March 02, 2018 @05:27PM (#16506350)
Strongly disagree here.

I think WebUSB will enable a lot of cool things, though it will definitely be hard to sandbox.

I want to program an Arduino from a web IDE. I want to control a 3d printer or pen plotter from a web application. I want to store things on a flash drive on my iPhone using a web-based file explorer? This last one sounds strange.

On a tangent, I see application runtimes moving into the browser by default with very few performance-critical applications remaining outside that stack. Photoshop and AAA games might be exceptions. Services like databases and web browsers would not have a need to be in Chrome.

(don't hurt me, I know I'm strange.. ~)

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by petee on Friday March 02, 2018 @09:26PM (#16507490)
Just because its possible, doesn't mean we should!

I see nearly no good reason for any of those uses to be web-based, and certainly not with hardware control! If you want to store files on your flash drive, the browser should handle that, not give out direct usb access...

Hearing this exists was a shock, like when the first Android 'Instant' load app showed up on my phone (apps that you don't install, but run themselves if you goto a website or a physical store, and without asking you)

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by heroprotagonist on Friday March 02, 2018 @05:44PM (#16506452)
Considering your use cases, why not simply require an extra step in the browser to enable it instead of turning it on for all users?

EG, take a few seconds to turn on a flag in configuration, or add a plugin.

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by X-Cubed on Friday March 02, 2018 @10:01PM (#16507607)
There is a permission prompt that appears, websites can't use the WebUSB functionality until you allow them too.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by Skunkleton on Friday March 02, 2018 @05:43PM (#16506446)
Why do you want to use a Web IDE? I am not trying to cause tension, I am just genuinely curious.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by dgacmu on Friday March 02, 2018 @06:02PM (#16506568)
For me: teaching!

Getting 400 students up and running with python is painful alone - without USB. For projects, some small fraction of those used USB, and we again had a pretty good chunk of time spent getting them all working.

Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by avian on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:45AM (#16508882)
I would think that getting Python up and running is a valuable lesson.
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by powvans on Friday March 02, 2018 @11:25PM (#16507866)
I worked for an online retailer a long long time ago and this would have been nice to have at our packstations. The tech at each station consisted of a Linux desktop, a barcode scanner, a printer, and a scale. The commerce platform was web based and displayed the current weight on the scale on the pack page.

Originally the scale was connected via serial port to the desktop. A little Perl service we called "the scale daemon" exposed the current weight on some localhost port. The backend would constantly poll that service and the web browser would poll the backend to keep the value on the page up to date. It was a nifty solution albeit a bit clumsy and it meant running an extra piece of software on 50+ machines in a warehouse.

At some point our scale vendor stopped selling scales with serial connections or maybe it was that the PC vendor stopped including serial ports. It was 10+ years ago and I can't recall exactly. What I do remember is that the guy that wrote the scale daemon had moved on and I had to figure out how to make it work with USB. It was fun and probably not as hard as it seemed at the time, but wow, being able to get at that scale from inside the browser would have massively simplified things.

[dead]
Re:Chrome lets hackers phish even 'Unphishable' Yubikey users by omni on Friday March 02, 2018 @01:16PM (#16504198)
This comment added nothing, in the future please consider offering substantive criticisms.