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Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @08:22AM (#16482773)
No? The law doesn’t prevent the government from searching your property in a wide range of circumstances: e.g. with a warrant, pursuant to a valid arrest, etc. That’s the whole idea of warrants: so there is a controlled way to search private property. The government goes to Israel to defeat technological roadblocks to doing what it’s allowed to do under the law. This technology isn’t being used to break into phones at surprise checkpoints, it’s being used to search phones of people who have been arrested.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by pessimizer on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @08:54AM (#16482939)
You left out why that's different from Guantanamo, and instead just defended it generally.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:14AM (#16483063)
Presumably guelo thinks Guantanamo permits the US to do things that would be illegal here. But breaking an iPhone pursuant to a warrant wouldn’t be. Having a warrant (or a suspect in custody) permits the government, by design, to do lots of things that would otherwise be illegal. The government doesn’t need to ship safes to Israel to avoid violating safe cracking laws when searching pursuant to a warrant.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by cryoshon on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:25AM (#16483137)
>implying the government asks for a warrant for many of their invasive activities

they don't play by their own set of rules.

Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:36AM (#16483228)
Ah yes, the old “government does X, so i’m going to speculate it also does Y, and it’s up to you to prove otherwise” trick. Arguing on the Internet is so much fun when we get to just make things up.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by veidr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @10:13AM (#16483474)
Come on now, there are literally thousands and thousands of thoroughly documented cases of law enforcement and government agencies violating the law.

The Israel == Guantanamo thing doesn't exactly make sense to me either, but now you're arguing nonsense. Certainly, we all know that the government, including law enforcement, doesn't always follow the law.

That's almost the entire argument for putting any limits on governmental power at all.

(That's not to say we should restrict them from doing this, though; if they can crack a phone, good for them, I suppose. But it's another thing to be concerned about.)

Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:39PM (#16484873)
There's thousands of law enforcement agencies in the U.S., handling tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of cases each year. If they break the law with respect to a small percentage of those cases, you'll end up with thousands of examples. But with respect to any given thing, statistically, the government is probably not breaking the law.

Here, the "Israel == Guantanamo" thing doesn't make sense if you assume that the government is using the Israeli hacks to break iPhones it has in custody because of a warrant or arrest. You can speculate that the government is stealing peoples' iPhones and breaking into them without a warrant, but it's an actual logical fallacy to point to different things the government is doing to argue that the government is doing this thing too.

Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by TheCoelacanth on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:40AM (#16483260)
But under the DMCA it doesn't matter if the thing you are trying to break the protection for is something you are allowed to do, just the act of breaking the protection is illegal.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:42PM (#16484894)
The DMCA, 17 USC 1201(e), includes a specific exception for law enforcement.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by wu-ikkyu on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:20AM (#16483100)
How do you know what it's being used for?
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:35AM (#16483220)
The iPhone hacks by their nature require having custody of the physical cell phone for an extended period of time. As far as I know, the government isn’t stealing peoples iPhones to search them.
Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by veidr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @10:20AM (#16483511)
> As far as I know, the government isn’t stealing peoples iPhones to search them.

Well, OK, now you know:

The US government seizes phones and laptops, "without showing reasonable suspicion of a crime or getting a judge’s approval", on a regular basis, and has done so for a number of years.

https://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/laptop-seizure-border...

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/16/canadian_privacy_co...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/technology/aclu-border-pa...

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25458533

(et fuckin' cetera...)

Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by rayiner on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:41PM (#16484888)
The government is permitted to search anything that crosses the U.S. border. It's a power inherent to nations, which are entities defined by their borders. The founding generation provided for such searches and seizures in the very first session of Congress.

You might not like it, but border searches aren't illegal, and the government doesn't need to go to Israel to do them.

Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by veidr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @09:36PM (#16489226)
I'm not claiming it's illegal. I'm just arguing that this is a new and serious security concern. You write:

> This technology isn’t being used to break into phones at surprise checkpoints, it’s being used to search phones of people who have been arrested.

and:

> As far as I know, the government isn’t stealing peoples iPhones to search them.

That implies it's nothing to worry about if you aren't being arrested, which is wrong.

First, you don't know when this technology is being used. It would be prudent to assume they US government could use this technology on any phone they seize.

Second, even if it's not "stealing" when government agents seize your phone at a border (or yes, at a surprise checkpoint, which they can and do use), from a security standpoint, it's the same thing.

The legality of these searches is not that interesting to me (witch-burning and slavery were legal too). What's interesting is that this new exploit, assuming the story is accurate, allows the government to search the data of phones that they seize.

Why should we worry about that? Because, as we have already established, they seize phones routinely, and not necessarily in conjunction with an arrest or even suspicion of criminality.

Yes, it's legal (in many cases, anyway). But before this new phone-cracking capability, it probably wasn't effective. The security on the Apple iPhone was believed to be good enough to stop such intrusion; now (again, assuming this article is accurate) we know it isn't.

Re:The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model by wu-ikkyu on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @02:35PM (#16486005)
Can't the police legally detain you for 24+ hours without "arresting" you? In that case wouldn't they have ample time to unlock the phone?