> I really don't want to learn dart

Literally half of programmers: "Ugh why can't everything be Javascript" Other half of programmers: "Ugh Javascript is the worst language in existence" /s

Given that javascript (esp on mobile) has a hard time reaching native performance, they presumably chose Dart because its design makes it immensely easier to target native iOS and Android without drastically augmenting JS to the point where it's no longer JS.

If there's a non-JS language that's easy to learn for a JS programmer, Dart (and I guess, TS) are it.

Sorry I didn't articulate my issue with Dart. The issue was not that I don't want to learn something that isn't javascript. The issue is that I don't want to learn a programming language who's only backer is Google. If dart had adoption outside of Google then I would have more incentive to learn it. So far it only looks like its used for internal google projects.

The dichotomy you described is really just, "People who learned enough Javascript to make money from it", and, people who are actually interested in programming and understand the fundamentals, who know more than one programming language.

You can find the code for a minimal click-counter app on the front page at: https://flutter.io

For something a bit beefier, we maintain a ‘gallery’ sample app that features a decent selection of widgets and a few demos: https://github.com/flutter/flutter/tree/master/examples/hell...

Disclaimer: I work on Flutter

Thank you for your hard work.

Why no plans to support non-mobile? I think it would help increase popularity to have a full solution.

We're a small team, so we have to start somewhere. Mobile is where there's a real lack of good solutions right now, so that's where we started. If we're successful and our team grows, or if we get contributions from the community, I could totally see us expanding into other areas. The engine itself is written to have an embedding API so if you're familiar with C++ you could totally start creating a non-mobile solution with Flutter today.

The screenshot looks like the IDE is Visual Studio Code, but I only see instructions for setup with IntelliJ and Android Studio (Is that Android Studio? I've never used that before)

Ah sorry, I meant the code sample under the “Modern, reactive framework” heading. Search for “class CounterState”.

As for editors, as you note, the instructions focus on IntelliJ/Android Studio, since that’s where the team has put most work, but there’s good support for VS Code (which I believe is what’s in the screenshot). For those who prefer something more minimal, you can find Dart support for vim and emacs too.

Thanks, I'll check it out

FWIW what we've seen in usability studies is that people who know JavaScript can pick up Dart without even noticing. (Literally, after an hour in a usability study we'd ask people what language they'd been using and they would respond with surprise, having not even noticed that it was a new language.)

Regarding trusting us to support a new framework, Flutter is entirely open source, so if Google every gives up, the code is still out there and can be maintained. Having said that, since AdWords is starting to use Flutter, it's probably going to be supported for a while.

I believe we have a sample app called "Flutter Gallery" in the app stores. See https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.flutter.gal...

Dart is being used by the AdWords even when no one else would use it. So in a sense it's the opposite of most cancelled Google products, used internally but not externally, vs things like reader that were used externally but not internally.

In addition to the sample mobile app cbracken mentions (he and I are both on the Flutter team), there are a number of codelabs that walk you through building a real mobile app. Including a lovely new codelab at https://flutter.io/get-started/codelab/

Here is the sample app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.flutter.gal...

Is there an iOS version? I don't see one in the App Store.

Apple doesn't accept demo apps in their store. But it is easy to fire up the Gallery app on an iOS phone from Flutter.

There are plenty of iOS Flutter apps in the App Store. For example, the Hamilton app or. The fact that you can't tell if an app was written in Flutter just by looking at it (or even playing with it) is a Feature.

I am very happy that they are not supporting JS. I am absolutely tired of JS and it's "ecosystem" trying to edge their way into every facet of computing.