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Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by cesarb on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:02PM (#16394284)
> I turned off auto-updates on my phone.

Even if you turn off auto-updates, some things still auto update silently. A long time ago, I wrote a small utility which listened to the PACKAGE_ADDED and PACKAGE_REMOVED events (I don't know if it's still possible to listen to these events on recent Android versions). IIRC, there were two packages that always updated silently (wihout a notification icon) and automatically, even with automatic updates disabled: com.android.vending (Android Market/Google Play Store), and com.google.android.gms (Google Play Services).

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by vanderZwan on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:19PM (#16394449)
And I have had the pleasure of breaking a phone, being stuck with an old one for a few months, and said old phone slowing down to a crawl, as well as losing it's very limited storage space (a few hundred MB) for no other reason than the Google Play Store insisting on being the most recent version.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by xingped on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:06PM (#16394323)
I was wondering why I saw updates for those two appear in my notifications bar from time to time even though I had automatic updates turned off!
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by metalliqaz on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:12PM (#16394376)
Is that a problem? I mean you're using a Google OS. At this point they are selling you a service, not a program. I have no idea what is in one version vs another, and I don't really care as long as the service keeps working.

Now, I do still care of being in control of my own hardware, but I do so on my server. I don't know of a cell phone that delivers what I want without being sold as a service rather than a standalone product. Best I can do is back up all my data to my own box and keep buying new phones when the batteries die.

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by cryptoz on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:18PM (#16394438)
This was a major major major problem for me. Those silent Android updates are buggy in huge ways. One of them turned off the barometer until phone restart, throwing my startup into a panic as our core product (live barometer data from millions of contributing phones) went slowly dark for some mysterious unknown and scary reason. The data took weeks to return and that gap is lost forever.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by ddalex on Friday February 16, 2018 @03:53PM (#16396095)
Do you have public data sets? Some live view? I'm interested to see live barometer data across a vast number of sensors.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by cryptoz on Friday February 16, 2018 @04:28PM (#16396535)
We used to, the company is no longer active. It was really neat data. It was open source code, but it's now a few years out of date, and would maybe be a good idea to rewrite, modernize and bring a big barometer network back online.

On the individual scale, the sensor data was noisy, but in a dense environment with lots of sensors, the noise is identifiable and filterable to get solid pressure trends (actual pressure values is considerably harder).

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by vanderZwan on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:20PM (#16394467)
> I have no idea what is in one version vs another, and I don't really care as long as the service keeps working.

They insist on updating to newer versions of the Play Store on very old hardware that doesn't actually have the hardware power to run it.

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by jacquesm on Friday February 16, 2018 @05:49PM (#16397250)
Yes, it is a problem: no updates means NO UPDATES, it does not mean all updates except for those that ignore the setting. The OS is supposed to enforce such things.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by ryandrake on Friday February 16, 2018 @06:09PM (#16397408)
Exactly. People are forgetting the word "command". In the old days, users would command computers to do things, and the computers did those things. If I say rm -rf documents, I expect the documents directory to be removed. I'm not suggesting that the computer could do it, or asking the computer to do it. I'm issuing a command. And I expect it to be carried out completely. Delete it all. I don't expect the OS to keep around some dot-files that it really really likes, or to hit me up for confirmation, or to silently ignore me because the OS vendor can make more money by doing so.

It's a huge problem if I tell a computer to do something and it doesn't do it, it does it half way, or it usually does it but sometimes doesn't. We engineers need to have a Hippocratic Oath that starts with: 1. Never put the company's need over the user's intent.

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by jacquesm on Friday February 16, 2018 @07:13PM (#16397879)
Interesting. I have a blog post in draft called 'Do as I say', it echoes quite a few of the sentiments in your comment.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by wtallis on Friday February 16, 2018 @09:54PM (#16398643)
Don't forget to mention that the term "user agent" for HTTP clients like web browsers used to be taken literally. Now, the expectation usually is that the browser acts in the best interests of the server, not the user.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by ryandrake on Friday February 16, 2018 @07:54PM (#16398092)
Maybe I'm just crabby but I even resent having to ask my computer via its software if it could please, pretty please, shut down. As if I need its permission. Back in the day, you threw the power switch and it was off.

And, yes, I understand disk caches and why we have a graceful shutdown process. What irks me is that the computer might be in the middle of doing something despite my not having told it to be doing anything.

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by jacquesm on Friday February 16, 2018 @08:53PM (#16398378)
Anything a little larger (say a 4381) 'back in the day' also needed to be asked politely to be switched off, even PDP-11's running UNIX wouldn't take kindly to an unscheduled drop in input juice. fsck or the local equivalent would be your lot. I'm actually quite happy with the shutdown speed of modern hardware running Linux, it's typically under a second or so but I can see how it might get to you that you can't just throw the switch. It might be interesting to do this on purpose a bunch of times to see what the end result is, I built a car computer once that was arranged purposefully so that losing power at any time did not make it lose stuff but that was quite a tricky setup with a supercap and a bunch of 'early warning' logic to let the computer know that powerdown was imminent. It did work but I was never quite sure how much leeway there was.
Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by BuildTheRobots on Friday February 16, 2018 @06:29PM (#16397537)
To be entirely fair, the option (at least on my Play store) gives options of "Do not auto-update apps. // Auto-update apps at any time. Data charges may apply. // Auto-update apps over Wi-Fi only."

It could easily and even possibly be fairly argued that there's a massive difference between updating 3rd party apps and updating the operating system itself.

The Play services were originally an immutable part of the core OS, but it meant that security updates relied on the manufacturer to push updates, which were useless useless at doing.

I am minded that everyone would laugh at me if I took an un-patched Windows XP system on the internet, yet using ancient Android 4 is still common place. A PC can function offline where as most people can't isolate a phone (from multiple networks) without loosing the core functionality. The PC can be blank; phones usually contain all sorts of personal and private information.

Personally I want OS's to leave me the hell alone, but actually, I can't really blame them for trying to protect their users.

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by khedoros1 on Friday February 16, 2018 @08:26PM (#16398262)
> It could easily and even possibly be fairly argued that there's a massive difference between updating 3rd party apps and updating the operating system itself.

Updates to the OS come as OTA notifications that I can choose how and when to apply (download+install separately, for example). I don't monitor my Play Services version, but I assume that it's silently updating in the background, unlike either my apps or the OS itself.

Re:I've never felt less in control of my own hardware by ocdtrekkie on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:25PM (#16394510)
Google Play Services meets all the definitions of malware. The fact that it is built to spy on you and transmit personal information about you to a third party, can't be removed, and does things like update itself despite your explicit instruction for it not to.