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Re:Insider trading has been rife on Wall Street, academics c... by loeg on Sunday February 11, 2018 @06:37PM (#16355458)
Robo advisors are just a way to nickel and dime investors for a very minimal service. Go to an ordinary discount brokerage like Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity, and buy 2-4 mutual funds or ETFs (total US stock, total international stock, total bond).
Re:Insider trading has been rife on Wall Street, academics c... by hendzen on Sunday February 11, 2018 @08:38PM (#16355933)
Look up tax loss harvesting. For most people the money Wealthfront/Betterment save you via tax deductions will be more than their fees.
Re:Insider trading has been rife on Wall Street, academics c... by loeg on Sunday February 11, 2018 @08:51PM (#16355985)
I'm familiar with tax loss harvesting. I don't think you need a robo adviser to do it, and I don't think the benefit overcomes the robo advisers' fees.

The benefit from TLH caps out at a $3,000 deduction annually (and the loss rolls over to future tax years). For someone in the 35% bracket (fairly high) that's a $1050 annual value. Not huge. Meanwhile, the fees do not have a cap.

$1050 in annual value equates to $420,000 in assets under management with a 0.25% fee rate. So even in a high tax bracket (the best case for TLH), you're losing money with the robo adviser at that level of assets.

(In the 22% tax bracket, that's $660 in annual benefit or a break-even point of only $264,000 in assets before you're losing money. Both of these figures generously assume the robo-adviser can hit that $3,000 of losses every year consistently.)

I think the robo advisors like to advertise the case where clients have about $100,000 under management because it's one of the few points on the curve where their TLH is a value-add after fees.

Re:Insider trading has been rife on Wall Street, academics c... by hendzen on Sunday February 11, 2018 @10:20PM (#16356281)
Average Wealthfront account is 44k according to their form ADV, far less than the 420k threshold you gave. It seems reasonable to guess that the account sizes follow a Pareto distribution so probably more (potentially much more) than 50% of accounts are below 44k. So for the majority, (potentially the vast majority) of their customers TLH makes their service a net positive.

Of course that assumes users with small account sizes actually have enough losses to harvest, but that seems likely when there is a market downturn like last week.

Re:Insider trading has been rife on Wall Street, academics c... by loeg on Sunday February 11, 2018 @11:22PM (#16356516)
You can't state that authoritatively, as most customers will probably also be in lower tax brackets than 35%, which produced the $420,000 figure. And who knows if they are hitting $3k/year, every year.

> Of course that assumes users with small account sizes actually have enough losses to harvest, but that seems likely when there is a market downturn like last week.

Exactly -- small account sizes have fewer losses to harvest. Maybe they see a slight benefit over totally passive investment net of fees, but the magnitude will be small.

And you can easily tax loss harvest without the robo-adviser anyway.