They're definitely not bad, but government bonds or corporate bonds are also decent long term investments, and real estate generally also is, since it's connected to inflation and cost of living.

Kind of a silly thing to say.

Stocks are the backbone of a retirement portfolio. With only bonds plus a dash of REITs, you’d need like 300% more momey to retire than if you were heavily weighted to equities

Straw man. I don't know why you think it's silly to diversify into less volatile asset classes for retirement purposes. Returns aren't everything, risk matters.

The giant straw man in this discussion is your original statement: it's hardly a panacea with perfect incentives

Who said it was? People responded to you, giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you actually were making some kind of point. But you're not saying they're bad... you're not saying they shouldn't be part of a retirement portfolio...

Apparently you're literally just saying "they're not a panacea"? I think everyone is in agreement here then, nothing to see here.

I know it's not there yet but how far from "best thing available" is crypto?