News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by fauigerzigerk on Sunday February 11, 2018 @04:50AM (#16352003)
The problem is that you need to own that same phone number permanently. Phone numbers are tied to exactly one SIM card, which is tied to exactly one telco in one country. Too many ties.

Threema doesn't require a phone number but it's not free.

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by dmytroi on Sunday February 11, 2018 @05:30AM (#16352098)
Depends on a country, in Sweden you can move your mobile number to any telco, and anyone can look up your number and your home address using something like [0]. But yes, it is still tied to a country.

- [0] https://hitta.se

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by fauigerzigerk on Sunday February 11, 2018 @05:42AM (#16352125)
Yes, what I meant to say is that the SIM card is tied to exactly one telco at any particular time. It's also tied to one device at a time.

Perhaps one of the virtual SIM card offerings would work with Signal though.

I'm juggling too many SIM cards and phones already. I don't want any new dependencies that complicate matters further.

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by LamaOfRuin on Sunday February 11, 2018 @09:17AM (#16352761)
You only need the sim card active to activate your signal with that number. After that you don't have to be connected to a cell network at all.
Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by fauigerzigerk on Sunday February 11, 2018 @11:28AM (#16353303)
But I still need to keep the SIM card active or I could never switch phones (or reinstall the phone OS) without losing my Signal identity.

I cannot ever let go of the phone number I used to activate Signal. In practice, that means I need to keep paying for a phone tariff I may no longer want.

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by LamaOfRuin on Sunday February 11, 2018 @12:30PM (#16353611)
True. I was assuming most people have at least one phone number they want to keep long term (even if it's not always active with their cell). Note though that signal will also work fine with non-traditional services that provide free or much cheaper phone numbers like google voice (US), skype, or twilio.

It is true though that you do need to maintain a phone number. That is one of the trade-offs they made to allow it to actually be usable. I have not seen a better solution for encrypted communication yet.

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by fauigerzigerk on Sunday February 11, 2018 @01:07PM (#16353836)
How does the phone number tie-in make it usable? Phone numbers and SIM cards are about the most user hostile thing I can possibly think of.

What's wrong with the way Threema does it for instance, which is essentially to bind the identity to a key pair that you can back up?

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by LamaOfRuin on Sunday February 11, 2018 @02:07PM (#16354177)
Threema appears to optionally do the exact same thing. Signal eschews the flexibility to ensure more universal usability by being able to assume that anyone who uses signal can be associated with their phone number. An assumption that holds for the vast vast majority of potential users.
Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by fauigerzigerk on Sunday February 11, 2018 @02:59PM (#16354429)
I don't see how making phone numbers mandatory makes Signal easier to use at all. There must be another reason for this restriction. Some say it's for spam protection.
Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by wyclif on Monday February 12, 2018 @12:25AM (#16356738)
Signal will work with Google Voice, but as far as I can tell you still need a smartphone to use it. Without that, you can't even set up an account because you need to scan an OCR code first.
Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by jhasse on Sunday February 11, 2018 @09:07AM (#16352727)
No, you can change the number associated with your Telegram account.
Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by fauigerzigerk on Sunday February 11, 2018 @11:37AM (#16353346)
I was talking about Signal. Sorry I didn't make that clear. The phone number is your identity. Changing it means reregistering with a different number.

[Edit] And I think it's essentially the same with WhatsApp, only they now make it a less manual process.

Re:How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? by jhasse on Sunday February 11, 2018 @12:03PM (#16353458)
Ah, I should have mentioned that I was talking about Telegram in my original comment, too. Can't edit it anymore :/