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Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by klodolph on Saturday February 10, 2018 @10:42AM (#16347741)
If that's your perspective, I can understand why it would seem ridiculous. But consider other perspectives. Think of all the people who weren't the first in their family to go to college.

Imagine that you're 18, and everyone you know tells you that you need to go to school to get a good job. People are competing to get into better schools, and you get admitted to a relatively nice private college with a beautiful campus. Your parents went to a similar college, graduated, got jobs, started a family, and are encouraging you to do the same thing.

Except now, college is something like 5x as expensive as it was for your parents, teachers, and advisors, adjusted for inflation. Your job prospects after college are worse, too. Maybe you manage to pull in $15/hr and you think it's pretty good, but meanwhile rent is 50% higher than it was for your parents and teachers.

You feel like you were lied to, betrayed, and you feel trapped. As a society, we created this problem. I'm not trying to take away agency from the people who chose to take out loans and study whatever they felt like, but we did send an army of teachers and academic advisers after our children telling them that college is what you need, and loans are how you pay for it.

The idea of a "non-economically practical degree" is a bit of a red herring, here. It doesn't matter as much which degree you get as an undergraduate. Sure, there are a few high-paying degrees like geology but in many fields you can get work with a range of degrees. Based on what I was majoring in, people would ask me if I was going to go into teaching, as if that were the only option for someone in my field. Yet here I am, working in industry.

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by troydavis on Saturday February 10, 2018 @11:10AM (#16347870)
> Except now, college is something like 5x as expensive as it was for your parents, teachers, and advisors, adjusted for inflation

When did this hypothetical 18 year old graduate? At least in 2000, the increase in college costs and difference in post-graduate pay was already widely covered in the media. From personal experience, one didn't need to look in order to hear about it.

I can imagine that it might not have been clear in 1990 or maybe even 1995, but pre-1995 high school graduates have probably paid off or discharged debt.

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2003/2003030.pdf (1999 data, 2003 publication) has interesting data. Doesn't really make the case either way, just informative.

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by klodolph on Saturday February 10, 2018 @12:12PM (#16348214)
I was thinking about people who went to college circa early 2000s, which is the population which graduated into the 2007-2008 financial crisis. Despite the fact that you couldn't avoid hearing the truth about your financial prospects, you also couldn't avoid hearing outright falsehoods from well-intentioned friends and family members. I know plenty of baby boomers who were basically kicked out of the house at 18, paid for college + rent + food + books with a part-time job, and thought that the best way for their children to have the same chance at life was to take on student loans.
Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by withoutclass on Saturday February 10, 2018 @08:08PM (#16350575)
Hello it's me, guy who graduated in December of 2008. I made the pragmatic choice to do computer science at a cheap in state school. Graduated with a job offer right out of school. Paid off my loans around age 26ish. I worked part time which paid for my housing and food. I had some financial help from family, but not to the point where my loans would have taken more than another year or two to pay down, even less if I had paid more than minimum payments. I also had some cash saved from working every summer since I was 12, as well as part time for a few years in high school.

I think people pitching college as a magic "you go then you get a job" is pretty bad for sure. Mostly because it leaves out the part where you need to make sure the juice is worth the squeeze monetarily.

It's definitely doable and it's definitely worth it if you choose a path that actually supports the future you envision for yourself.

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by _dps on Saturday February 10, 2018 @11:04AM (#16347849)
> It doesn't matter as much which degree you get as an undergraduate.

In my experience this is a very US-middle-class-upward-centric idea. The working class people I know who went to college were all rationally concerned about picking a degree with good employment prospects, as were most of the people I know from outside the US (where the "broad liberal education" is less valorized, or even non-existent).

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by klodolph on Saturday February 10, 2018 @11:18AM (#16347908)
I must have been hanging out with different working-class people. Economic capital is only one form of capital, and my friends were concerned with building their social and cultural capital as well. These things give you access to better support networks, which in turn give you more freedom to get a better job if that's what you want. It all seemed based a very continental philosophy to me, but that's probably due to the particular school I went to.
Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by rayiner on Saturday February 10, 2018 @10:45AM (#16347755)
Then the teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you about education should bear the cost, instead of the future taxpayers currently in utero.
Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by klodolph on Saturday February 10, 2018 @10:55AM (#16347806)
Funny you should mention future taxpayers in utero, because it's the generation with student loan debt that's not having children because they're too busy paying off student loans. They're skittish about getting married because maybe you're in love with someone who's $50k in debt, and you're not sure if you want to deal with that kind of burden.

Also, the idea of taxing "teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you" is absurd at face value.

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by rayiner on Saturday February 10, 2018 @11:23AM (#16347934)
Why is the idea of taxing the people who created the problem absurd? One, they’re the ones with wealth to tax. Two, their ignorantly optimistic mindset is responsible for the education bubble. Both generations prior and this current generation realized the value of working instead of pursuing higher education. Three, they benefited from it. The vast apparatus of higher education, professors, administrators, etc., aren’t staffed with millenials.
Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by klodolph on Saturday February 10, 2018 @11:30AM (#16347975)
I'm not sure what you mean by "taxing the people who created the problem". Do we just tax people based on their age, and assume that anyone over 50 probably had their hand in this? Or do we test people to see if they ever gave bad advice to children, and give them fines? Who, exactly, will be paying the tax, and how do we identify these people?

Maybe I'm missing something, because this seems a bit too obviously absurd.

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by rayiner on Saturday February 10, 2018 @12:05PM (#16348167)
You wouldn’t literally tax people based in advice they gave; instead it’s a matter of using different funding mechanisms that are incident disproportionately on different groups. Funding stuff with debt is a de facto tax on future generations. Instead, you can e.g. tax 401k withdrawals above a certain amount, higher property taxes, taxes on pension withdrawals, etc.

You can say that not everyone who draws on a 401k contributed to the problem, but that’s besides the point. If you forgive the debt, then nobody who is going to bear the cost will have had anything to do with creating the bubble.

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by klodolph on Saturday February 10, 2018 @12:18PM (#16348261)
I think we're having parallel discussions here. It's painfully obvious that simply forgiving $1.3 trillion in debt without figuring out where the money should come from is not a good solution. So I guess what I'm saying is I don't think I hold the viewpoint you're arguing against.

I guess I misinterpreted your argument for taxing the "teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you".

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by toomuchtodo on Saturday February 10, 2018 @10:50AM (#16347780)
A reasonable proposal if Baby Boomers wouldn’t continue to subjugate future generations to crippling tax rates due to irresponsible financial policy decisions today.

The US has trillions (!!!) of dollars in liabilities that will need to be paid and we're still inacting tax cuts “because taxes are too high”.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by rectang on Saturday February 10, 2018 @02:29PM (#16349044)
But not the lenders? They didn't have anything to do with convincing people to take their loans? They have to be subsidized with favorable bankruptcy laws?
Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by rayiner on Sunday February 11, 2018 @07:21AM (#16352385)
More than 90% of student loan debt is federal, either direct or through private lenders where the lending decision is made by the government. The “favorable bankruptcy laws” were adopted primarily to protect these loans, because they are issued, by law, at set interest rates and without regard to credit risk.
Re:We Must Cancel Everyone’s Student Debt, for the Economy’s... by rectang on Sunday February 11, 2018 @10:24AM (#16353017)
> private lenders where the lending decision is made by the government.

Yes, exactly. Them. Nice racket!