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Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by mschuster91 on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:38AM (#16307927)
I fear that there won't be regulation against the "gig economy" as politicians are way too bought out by the big companies profiting from it... and as there will always be someone desperate enough to take even the most rotten, most underpaid job, even collective action (aka strikes) won't help.

The only thing that will help for sure is, I am afraid, massive amounts of riots.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by thinkingemote on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:58AM (#16308008)
Riots generally don't help, but I can understand the sentiment if you have lost all hope in the political system. Beware though, you might be advocating for murder, property damage, more corruption and misery, in the hope of alleviating it.

Also be aware that most polical riots do not get organized as riots, rather they are political demonstrations which turn into riots. Also know that rioters in the state of rioting are not hoping for something better.

In the same way as a strike is the last resort and an indication that negotiations in business has failed, so a riot is a failure. Never want one.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by dalbasal on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:32AM (#16308151)
They're not the most reliable or efficient method, but I wouldn't say riots can't affect any change.

Going back to the 19th-20th century labour movements, rioting sometimes had a leading role in the creation of labour laws, the ones being skirted here.

But I disagree with the OP. I think better standards will emerge. Some level of organised political action would probably do it, but I think Uber drivers and gig-couriers don't identify enough as a group to organise and make political demands.

What we actually need in most places is better categories for on-demand, casual and piecemeal work. Employers are often willing to pay a premium for low commitment employment terms, via 3rd party HR firms/contracts. Put that money towards regulated protections instead, pension and unemployment insurance.

Gig arrangements aren't inherently bad, they are just not regulated/legislated well.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by mschuster91 on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:31AM (#16308370)
> Some level of organised political action would probably do it, but I think Uber drivers and gig-couriers don't identify enough as a group to organise and make political demands.

The problem is: Once the gig workers go to strike, the employing companies will either cut their hours/parcels/whatever or terminate them outright on the spot and take the next desperate person into their racket as replacement. And as long as there is a large enough pool of desperate people willing to do any kind of job for virtually no pay this race to the bottom will continue.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by dalbasal on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:14AM (#16308532)
There are multiple types of political action that can be taken. One is industrial action and group bargaining. IMO, this is not the best tool for the job as most of the gig economy doesn’t exist yet. You need to bargain with companies that haven’t been founded yet.

Another type is just lobbying/advocacy.

I think the gig-employers (uber etc.) would be pretty happy with clearer legislation. Costs they would shoulder just fine. They can’t/don’t want to (a) have to manage their HR via a HR department and (b) deal with anything short of extreme at-will employment clauses.

IMO (again) there is a ruleset that works for most parties. Define some categories. (EG piecemeal like uber). The definition needs to include restrictions, like “employees control their own hours.” You need to ban certain abusive contracts. Then you need to set aside enough money (more than regular employees) for things like medical insurance, income protection, pensions and everything else that gets left out.

I think most employers would gladly spend a little more money if they get to maintain their flexibility. I think it’s also societally valuable to do this. (a) Uber is a good case study. They expanded a global workforce much faster than would be possible under traditional employment. (b) Also, a lot of gigs are very low barrier to entry, with very little gatekeeping. This helps get employment to people that otherwise struggle to get it for whatever reason.

This is not an unsolvable problem, even the political 3rd order interests and horse trading is not that bad. It just hasn’t been done yet because (a) the gig economy is new (b) a lot of traditional labour advocates are opposed to its existence and (c) our political systems are not doing too well right now.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by flukus on Monday February 05, 2018 @11:04PM (#16314371)
Riots by themselves won't do much, but that depends on what's being destroyed:

> There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it — that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!

Violence is still by far the most effective way of preventing the machine (whatever the machine in question happens to be) from working. Peaceful protesting has achieved absolutely nothing for the last 50 years, it's a lie told to keep the masses in line.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by jdmichal on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:49AM (#16308433)
You're right, but also wrong. Negotiations only work when both sides are capable and willing to walk away if their needs aren't met. This breaks down when one is already in a relationship that they can't walk away from. In such a political situation, constituents have to be willing to walk away from the order of law. Otherwise they will always be powerless against the rulers.
Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by majewsky on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:05AM (#16308270)
> you might be advocating for murder, property damage, more corruption and misery

Where are they advocating for it? I only see a prediction, not an endorsement.

> The only thing that will help for sure is, I am afraid, massive amounts of riots.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by gaius on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:14AM (#16308307)
I fear that there won't be regulation against the "gig economy" as politicians are way too bought out by the big companies profiting from it...

Not just that, or even mainly that, I don’t think, it’s the impact on the employment figures.

Re:DPD courier who was fined for day off to see doctor dies ... by rsynnott on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:15AM (#16308309)
A big part of the problem is that it's new, and regulators move slowly. Regulators in many places are now cracking down on the likes of Uber and AirBNB; these fake contractor companies are probably next.