News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by yardie on Sunday February 04, 2018 @09:07AM (#16302760)
As an American expat my experience far more people are moving to the US for tax reasons than are moving away. Out of all the western democracies it’s still one of the lowest taxable rates.

Most people surrendering citizenship aren’t doing so to avoid taxes. They are doing so to avoid double taxation.

A Bitcoin billionaire is either paying the US 15-20% capital gains tax or France, for example, 45-50%. Either way, Caesar still gets his due.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by charlesdm on Sunday February 04, 2018 @09:50AM (#16302917)
Following countries allow you to cash out Bitcoin tax free, if you're an early holder: the UK, Ireland, Cyprus, Malta, Belgium, Netherlands, possibly Germany, Switzerland, Singapore, the UAE, Monaco, the Channel Islands, Andorra, Italy (if you pay a €100k levy), Portugal, Singapore, and I probably forgot another dozen countries. Pretty much half of Western Europe.

If you have the money, most of these countries offer great quality of life. If you're sitting on a $100m gain.. it's worth it. A change of scenery isn't always bad in life. Personally I would never voluntarily pay 20% on a massive gain if there is a legal way to avoid it.

I guess what this article is implying is, since the US treasury does not know of the existence of these Bitcoins, people can easily renounce (committing US tax fraud in the process) and cash in.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by berberous on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:11AM (#16302998)
If I was sitting on a $100mm windfall, paying $20mm seems like a no brainer to be able to live in or at least visit the U.S., where presumably all of your friends and family live, without worrying about being arrested for tax fraud.

Not to mention the moral arguments in favor of paying the taxes you owe.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by charlesdm on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:30AM (#16303096)
The only taxes you owe, are the ones you legally owe. Saving on taxes also doesn't mean you can't give back.

You can support promising artists, give grants to talented people, help people out who can't afford their medical bills, end up in a bad legal situation, etc.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by posterboy on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:22AM (#16303051)
> moral arguments in favor of paying the taxes

alright

> moral arguments in favor of paying the taxes you owe.

woah, not so fast. There's no morality in blind obedience.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by cm2187 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:11AM (#16302994)
Why the UK? I would expect the transaction to be liable to capital gain taxes. I think only betting or spreadbetting are tax free.
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by charlesdm on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:16AM (#16303021)
You need to be a non-dom to be make use of the remittance system and not be liable to tax upon the sale of your asset (in this case Bitcoin or other crypto).

Most former British colonies have a similar system (in particular, Ireland, Malta and Cyprus) and (if you have a British passport) could make use of the system there, as you do not have your domicile in those countries.

See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-mon...

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by cm2187 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:24AM (#16303060)
Ok non-dom but it comes with some strings attached. I understand you must pay £30,000 per year and the proceeds of the sale of the btc must never be repatriated to the UK.
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by charlesdm on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:26AM (#16303076)
Fee does not apply in the first 7 years. You could move to the UK for one tax year, and then move to Sweden, taking your money with you. You would have booked your entire gain tax free since it was "taxed" in the UK.

Or you could move to Malta for a tax year, and then move to the UK. It would be tax free as well. In my view worth doing if it's a sizeable sum.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by josephagoss on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:08AM (#16302989)
Do you have a source on the UK having a lower tax rate for early Bitcoin holders?
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by charlesdm on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:20AM (#16303037)
Only for non doms. Gains will be exempt from CGT if held in a bank account outside of the UK, unless remitted to the UK. See answer above.
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by origami777 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @09:18AM (#16302801)
Singapore is a western (like) country and has no capital gains tax. Though as some other commenters have noted, i don’t know if the IRS would consider it legal for a US citizen to bail and not pay the tax.

Edited

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by sjg007 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:22AM (#16303045)
You can't renounce citizenship for purely tax reasons, I believe.
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by origami777 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @06:34PM (#16305577)
The closet incident I could remember was when a Facebook co founder did this. Looks like he still had to pay a tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Saverin
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by dogma1138 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @10:03AM (#16302970)
Singapore is a tiny bubble that if you are rich you can live a luxurious life style without fearing (too much) for your safety but I would not call it western by any means.
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by origami777 on Sunday February 04, 2018 @06:26PM (#16305552)
Hmmmm. Your statement makes me think you don’t know much about Singapore.

It is a tiny city, but it has a massive role in Southeast Asia. I have lived there before and lived a great life without being rich by US or Singapore standards. The national language is English. They are by all means a capitalist country. It is a modern high tech society. Very western if you ask me.

The only way they aren’t that I can think of is that they are not a democracy.

Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by saosebastiao on Sunday February 04, 2018 @09:20AM (#16302804)
I heard there's a law preventing you from getting a visa to the US if you surrender your US citizenship for tax reasons. Does that still apply if you became a citizen and resident of a higher taxing nation, but didn't want to be double taxed?
Re:Secret Bitcoin billionaires to renounce their US citizens... by tptacek on Sunday February 04, 2018 @09:29AM (#16302832)
Technically, there is. It requires the Attorney General to issue a determination about your specific case. It's never been used (it's 20 years old); it could theoretically be applied, but it's unlikely to be.