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Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by brudgers on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:19PM (#16286012)
A description of -- not a name for -- is corporate control of an open source project. Trying to keep up with Angular or Kubernetes or Go is not a problem at the Google from whence they come because the technologies are primarily used by and hence primarily designed for use by teams. Not individual developers.

A team's brain can schedule a time where part of it is training or studying while the rest of it is making progress on the task at hand. A team's brain can resolve ambiguity and complexity more easily because it has multiple human brains and those brains have different strengths and experiences.

A single developer can't duplicate a brain. A small team of developers can't replicate the larger multi-team brain of a Google org-chart. Google org-charts are the context for which its tools are designed. The same is true of other corporate open source technology bundles like React and AWS.

People kick themselves for not grokking technologies like Kuberentes without realizing that it wasn't really designed for their use case, isn't documented to be easy to pick up, and isn't managed with the cognitive load of individuals in mind. The time scales around which these technologies are designed are FTE-months or years.

If a two pizza team can get up to speed in a month, it means an individual will probably take about a year. Given equal cognitive efficiency.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by jweir on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:41PM (#16287018)
I disagree on Go.

Go is well designed and takes upgrading into consideration. Upgrades very rarely break anything. You should just be able to recompile that 1.3 code on 1.8, etc.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by kuschku on Friday February 02, 2018 @02:46AM (#16289081)
On the other hand, dependency management in go in any sane way is such a byzantine task that it takes ages to get working, and even then it still doesn't.

Given an empty set of environment variables, setting up a new go project with dependencies and all in a way that people cloning it later on can also use the dependencies in a single command, without vendoring dependencies, without building custom scripts, is impossible.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by bpicolo on Friday February 02, 2018 @09:24AM (#16290668)
It's impossible with first party tools, but I've had a great experience with Glide.

That said, go drives me up a wall. Using interface{} to muck with JSON and typecast every step of the way is just my nightmare. It's inelegant in every way

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by sethammons on Friday February 02, 2018 @10:04AM (#16291015)
Type cast every step of the way? Methinks you are either doing something wrong or dealing with unstructured json.
Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by bpicolo on Friday February 02, 2018 @11:42AM (#16291908)
The pain of dealing with unstructured json/mapping types is exactly what I'm referring to. :)

That said, I don't think the language as a whole lends itself towards elegance - that's pretty much the opposite of their goals. I don't agree that their model for simplicity is the only (or best) model for simplicity is all.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by bazfoo on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:08PM (#16288084)
I concur with the sentiment.

The risk is still there for dependencies, but it helps that the community for the most part follows "a little copying is better than a little dependency" as an adage.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by mancerayder on Thursday February 01, 2018 @05:01PM (#16286335)
These are excellent points and very interesting food-for-thought, the 'organizational thinking' that leads to the tools being terribly complex and steep to learn for individuals.

But don't these tools have product managers, and don't product managers create tools to serve customers?

The only cynical viewpoint that I can think of for artificial (or lazy) complexity is consulting dollars.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by icebraining on Thursday February 01, 2018 @05:28PM (#16286549)
Google does consulting now?
Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by ethbro on Thursday February 01, 2018 @08:05PM (#16287493)
They do, but I think most of their consulting is driven by a desire to enable other organizations on their tech (hence buying more).

So definitely more helpful than the "obfuscate + delay = profit" model of most consulting agencies.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by lugg on Thursday February 01, 2018 @05:52PM (#16286728)
Now?

If you spend enough they always have.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by digi_owl on Friday February 02, 2018 @02:06AM (#16288942)
Been my building worry as i have watched the ongoing changes is the Linux ecosystem in recent years.

It feels like thereis a echo chamber happening, where a small group of peope working for maybe 2-3 companies have decided that their vision is the correct vision.

And everyone that says otherwise are haters and fossils.

Re:The full-time job of keeping up with Kubernetes by Santosh83 on Friday February 02, 2018 @03:18AM (#16289198)
Well, hundreds of medium and large companies now rely critically on Linux so it was expected that slowly they will cooperate to steer its further evolution.

People do respond that the whole codebase is open source and hence if some really bad change happens the community can always fork from the last known good commit. But this ignores a subtler issue: soon enough so many of the critical subsystems and so many of their contributions will come from individuals directly or indirectly working for corps that if/when those subsystems start adversely impacting the original Linux philosophy, stripping them all out and starting over again would be not much better than abandoning the whole platform.

This is exactly why alternative efforts that seek to maintain working and up-to date alternative init systems, display managers and desktops are critical to the long-term health of Linux.

Linux thrives on multiplicity of choices, which is anathema for corps who always want to consolidate. But that road eventually will weaken Linux for the general community and varied use cases.