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Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by IgorPartola on Thursday February 01, 2018 @09:40AM (#16282105)
Text editor, video, audio editor, system widgets and settings, web browser, terminal emulator, git GUI client, crypto coin wallet, chat client, games, document editor, security focused software a la Keybase client.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by tempay on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:04AM (#16282286)
> I'd write a GUI app for

It's unlikely that cabalamat would attempt making most of those and the others could definitely be done as a web/electron app if desired.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by IgorPartola on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:12PM (#16284807)
Well sure. That is to say that Qt/Wx/GTK/etc. are as useless to cabalamat as to a Ukrainian plumber. In other words, that isn't saying much. If you don't write desktop apps, you wouldn't use a desktop app GUI toolkit, but that's a tautology. But cabalamat's comment implied that all desktop GUI toolkits are now useless because we have the web, which is a fallacy of generalizing personal experience to everyone else.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by cabalamat on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:27PM (#16286064)
> But cabalamat's comment implied that all desktop GUI toolkits are now useless because we have the web, which is a fallacy of generalizing personal experience to everyone else.

Not useless in general, just useless for me

I once wrote a Python program to compile GUIs[1] -- you input a description of the GUI as a text file and it outputs Python code that implements the GUI in Tkinter. I dusted this off for a project last year but eventually decided that making it web-based would be easier to write, look nicer, and have more functionality.

Obviously if other people find WxPython useful, good luck to them.

1: see https://github.com/cabalamat/parrot

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by JustSomeNobody on Thursday February 01, 2018 @12:11PM (#16283569)
> ... and the others could definitely be done as a web/electron app if desired.

But probably shouldn't because we don't produce enough renewable energy yet. There's still something to be said about using TRUE native apps.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by cabalamat on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:30PM (#16286096)
I agree that electron is a bloated resource hog. But if you're running a web browser anyway (I always am) then it's not a big deal to have a web app with the server running locally and the client being a browser tab.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by cabalamat on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:22PM (#16286035)
> It's unlikely that cabalamat would attempt making most of those and the others could definitely be done as a web/electron app if desired.

I'd write a web app and expose it on 127.0.0.1:someport rather than electron (which is bloated). Going down IgorPartola's list:

Text editor - I'd probably make this terminal-based using curses. Then I could easily use it on a remote server I'm ssh'd into.

video, audio editor - I've no plans/desires to write anything like these

system widgets and settings - a web app is highly suitable for editing system settings

web browser - far too big a project for me!

terminal emulator - plenty of good ones around already. I mostly use KDE's konsole.

git GUI client - I've recently been adding some git functionality to my catwiki wiki software (a web app) https://github.com/cabalamat/catwiki

crypto coin wallet - web app

chat client - web app or terminal-based

games - I've considered writing a hex-based board wargame as a web app

document editor - my catwiki wiki software is this, I suppose

security focused software a la Keybase client - the last time I wrote security software was a zero-user-interface email encryption system. If I did something like that in future, any interface would be web based

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by sfifs on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:06AM (#16282307)
the point is HTML5/CSS/JS nowadays provides superior UI experience to traditional UI frameworks. In many of the categories above, there are electron/webview based applications that's very popular.

Text editor, document editor -> VS Code/Atom

terminal emulator -> Google's terminal emulator

git GUI client -> GitHub client is electron based

chat client -> slack is electron based

games -> lots of web based

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by seanmcdirmid on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:11AM (#16282334)
The only thing superior about HTML/CSS/JS GUI are its ease of deployment and portability characteristics. As a UI platform, it feels like a huge step back from modern desktop GUI APIs, like we are doing UI programming in the 90s again.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by sfifs on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:17AM (#16282381)
And I feel the other way around. "Modern Desktop GUI" feels clunky and archaic to me :-) Like menus and toolbars and the "ribbon" ajd the status bar and those clunky desktop widgets...
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by seanmcdirmid on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:28AM (#16282482)
That is a UI design issue: you don’t gave to use those, and if you do, it’s up to you to use them right. Web comes with a lot of limitations, many of those widgets obviously don’t make sense in the browser; heck they probably don’t make sense on the desktop but that is less obvious. With web, simplicity is enforced out of nescessary limitation, and this has turned out to be good for users.

From a programming perspective, modern desktop UI libraries are much more powerful and have less limitations. How you use that power is up to you and your UXD, however.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by coldtea on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:26PM (#16284965)
It's because you have been conditioned to have low expectations by web apps.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by sfifs on Thursday February 01, 2018 @05:59PM (#16286767)
I've been programming computers since the time they came with two 5.25 inch floppies with green text monitors and have seen all UI paradigms since then. Maybe I have a right to have a point of view?

The standard desktop design paradigms were built by programmers for programmers - a lazy way to approach things leading to clunky to use software. The dog eat dog world of the web and rise of touch has forced us to turn to designers to play a huge role in simplifying interfaces and flows.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by zwieback on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:35PM (#16286973)
I'll see your 5.25 floppies and green text monitors and raise you 8" floppies and smooth-scrolling VT100s.

Agree with your opinions, though, you old fart.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by coldtea on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:07PM (#16286821)
>The standard desktop design paradigms were built by programmers for programmers - a lazy way to approach things leading to clunky to use software. The dog eat dog world of the web and rise of touch has forced us to turn to designers to play a huge role in simplifying interfaces and flows.

UI design and HCI has been a thing for 4+ decades.

The web is a very poor example of those things -- not to mention it has forgotten decades of research and best practices.

What it has is just ubiquity and easy access.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by IgorPartola on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:22AM (#16282425)
Electron != web app. Have you tried using Slack's actual web client vs the Electron app? I personally strongly prefer the stand-alone client. The same with the git GUI client. The equivalent web thing is github.com.

If the original statement was "I prefer Electron for my desktop apps over Qt/Wx/GTK/etc." I could totally understand that. But the original comment was "My 'go to GUI' is a web app". That's not the same thing. It is our modern version of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by cabalamat on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:32PM (#16286103)
> It is our modern version of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

No. I've written GUI software, and tools for building GUI software[1], in the past.

1: https://github.com/cabalamat/parrot

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by sametmax on Thursday February 01, 2018 @11:04AM (#16282848)
It's not my experience. Appart from some chat apps and vscode, i have only bad xp with electron apps. Stuff like stremio or popcorn time are slow and the mix of web paradigms into the destop sucks. Using dropbox, office, mails clients, are way better on native than then web version.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by zwieback on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:15AM (#16282365)
Also, GUI toolkits were never fun or easy to use in desktop development. I've used MFC, wx and Qt with C++, Forms and WPF with C# and Qt with Python. All of those had their challenges so browser-based GUIs don't seem so bad as an alternative. Not a fan of JS but modern toolkits are almost at a point where they hide enough of the ugliness.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by protomyth on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:49AM (#16282685)
Also, GUI toolkits were never fun or easy to use in desktop development.

NeXTSTEP was fun. Frankly, its still easier to develop for OPENSTEP 4.x then the web. VB when it first came out was amazing and all the VBX control you could buy were amazing. Heck, even the Newton was a lot cleaner to build a UI which still amazes me since Javascript should have been capable of the same type of prototype-based interface.

Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by markroseman on Thursday February 01, 2018 @10:31AM (#16282505)
Never? Dude, Tk back in the day! Compared with all the raw X11 predecessors, it was a revelation for Unix GUI's.
Re:WxPython 4.0.0 Released by zwieback on Thursday February 01, 2018 @11:16AM (#16282987)
True - Tk was quite the step up back then. I still use it every day when I fire up gitk or git gui.