Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by eptcyka on Monday January 29, 2018 @05:15AM
(#16256589)
Passing through GPUs is problematic, as it's a massive attack surface.
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Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by effie on Monday January 29, 2018 @06:22AM
(#16256839)
Could you elaborate on the 'massive'? Let's say you let the VM see the GPU. What kind of attack would that enable? Let's suppose that a virus inside VM manipulates GPU outside of what applications are allowed to do. What worst thing could happen?
Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by pjc50 on Monday January 29, 2018 @07:13AM
(#16257020)
The GPU is a PCIe/AGP "bus master", so it can usually initiate DMA transfers from host memory and read anything it likes. IOMMU blocks some of this, but is not a perfect defence. https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/150386/does-iom...
Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by effie on Monday January 29, 2018 @07:39AM
(#16257112)
Thanks, according to [1], it seems DMA is quite a 'backdoor', bypassing any memory management the kernel would do. But it is not clear to me whether this allows the attacker inside VM also to write into the forbidden regions of memory and thus either modify behaviour of the hypervisor or send information out via Internet.
Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by gmueckl on Monday January 29, 2018 @08:46AM
(#16257429)
GPUs can definitely write to host memory. In some situations, this is the only way to the results of some operations that the GPU performed (e.g. grab framebuffer for screenshots or video recordings). Usually, it's the job of the driver to check for illegal copy target addresses.
Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by kakarot on Monday January 29, 2018 @07:58AM
(#16257205)
The primary objective would be exfiltration, executive control is only secondary. If you can exfiltrate keys or hashes then you might not even need to use DMA to gain access to a system.
Re:Qubes Air: Generalizing the Qubes Architecture
by kakarot on Monday January 29, 2018 @07:05AM
(#16256986)
It's unavoidable for me.
It provides no drawback for users who don't utilize it, and the alternative is me remaining with KVM which is a vastly larger attack surface, so your argument defeats itself.