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Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by grecy on Saturday January 27, 2018 @10:44AM (#16246596)
> This Amazon deal is likely to be neutral or beneficial for whichever government manages to pull them in. It's a race to the bottom but it likely isn't really deeply harmful.

(the employees will pay property taxes and spend money in the community...)

There is absolutely no world where this is neutral or beneficial for any government.

Of course the employees will pay property taxes and spend money.... but our whole society and tax system is based on the idea that the employees pay taxes AND the employer pays taxes. Just because employees are paying doesn't mean the employer shouldn't.

The government should be collecting millions (billions?) in property taxes and spending from the employees AND billions from Amazon - that's how the whole system was designed and is supposed to function. That's how roads are built and teachers are paid. The government will lose billions of tax dollars from Amazon they should be getting, which is absolutely 'deeply harmful'

I have no idea why anyone would want to be part of a race to the bottom. The drive to increase corporate profits is gutting America, and the kind of reasoning you use simply justifies it.

Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by trgv on Saturday January 27, 2018 @11:16AM (#16246719)
I agree with you that these kinds of transactions are regrettable and they leave a bad taste in my mouth. At the same time, you haven't convinced me that local governments are making a bad decision by playing this game.

I think perspective is key here. From a broad economic perspective, Amazon is going to build this thing somewhere, and so these kinds of trade-offs seem pointless. Economists likely object because the whole thing is economically inefficient from a broad (national) perspective.

But from the perspective of a local government, that may not be the case. A local government is concerned about the local economy more than the national economy, and so offering these perks makes sense.

Again, I agree that the whole thing is regrettable, and that it probably hurts the economy as a whole. I wish Amazon didn't play these games. But I also think it's worth pushing back against the idea that these local governments are clueless idiots. They may very well be making a good decision from their narrow perspective, and the city that Amazon chooses may very well see a net increase in tax revenue.

Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by grecy on Saturday January 27, 2018 @11:24AM (#16246761)
> I wish Amazon didn't play these games.

This has nothing to do with Amazon "playing games" and everything to do with politicians making deals so multi-billion dollar companies can avoid their tax obligations. Hilarious, anywhere else in the world it's called corruption, but in America "It's just business"

>They may very well be making a good decision from their narrow perspective, and the city that Amazon chooses may very well see a net increase in tax revenue.

There is no universe where that is true. It just means all the cities are in a race to the bottom competition. Sure their tax revenue may have net increased, but it will be by a much lower amount than it should be.

"Net increase in tax revenue at all costs" is not the goal here.

What do you think is going to happen when this happens all across America, and every time a monster company does something they get out of paying billions in tax?

Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by trgv on Saturday January 27, 2018 @02:03PM (#16247515)
I feel like you missed my point. I'm not saying this is good or that it should continue.

I'm saying that, in the context of the world as it exists today, if I am the mayor of Boston, it will benefit my city to offer Amazon tax breaks to entice them to build there.

Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by Anon1096 on Saturday January 27, 2018 @12:09PM (#16246943)
A city's tax revenue isn't "lower than it should be" with Amazon's headquarters (subsidized by the taxpayer). If they don't attract Amazon, they don't get any money at all. With Amazon, they get increased employment and all the taxes employees are now paying. And all the benefits of having a tech giant centered in your jurisdiction. It's a win-win for Amazon and any cities willing to play.
Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by maxerickson on Saturday January 27, 2018 @10:49AM (#16246613)
What's your definition of neutral?

Mine is that revenues go up more than costs of services.

Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by grecy on Saturday January 27, 2018 @11:17AM (#16246722)
Neutral would be everyone following the law and the tax code as it is laid out. "Neutral" should be the government getting billions from Amazon, as they are legally obligated to pay.

It's clearly harmful because revenue is supposed to be going up A LOT more than it will be.

Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by maxerickson on Saturday January 27, 2018 @11:24AM (#16246760)
The good news is that the majority of cities bidding on the Amazon project will get that deal!
Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by Armisael16 on Saturday January 27, 2018 @11:26AM (#16246769)
That's precisely my definition of beneficial. Neutral would be when the cost of additional services are equal to the benefits.
Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by maxerickson on Saturday January 27, 2018 @12:06PM (#16246930)
Yes I agree, I was just imprecise in my statement there.
Re:Promising Billions to Amazon: Is It a Good Deal for Cities? by vonholstein on Saturday January 27, 2018 @11:18AM (#16246728)
With an infinite amount for investment I'd agree with you, no city would need or want to proffer incentives. But with only $x to go around for investment countrywide, how do I attract a percentage of that to my city? I'd like to see how that would work sans a centrally planned economy.