Actually, average salary worker with one year experience in America averages 11 days. With five years experience, 15 days. So it seems unlikely that only 10% give 20 days. Almost 20% of the US workforce is employed by Federal, state, and local governments, which tend to give a bit more vacation than industry, I believe.

Regardless, we’re talking about SV, so whether it’s an anomaly is irrelevant.

Source: https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-vacation-time-and-pay-do...

That’s PTO, which isn’t vacation.

What's the difference? They're paying you for time you're not working, and if you quit, they have to pay you out the accumulated PTO.

> What's the difference?

"PTO" or "annual leave" typically is either a combined pool used for both vacation and sick leave purposes, or, when used to compare across employers, compares what is offered as either PTO/annual leave by name, or the sum of separate vacation and sick leave.

So, no, its not the same as vacation.

I think it's a matter of semantics. My current employer refers to it as PTO (as in "schedule your PTO and clear it with your manager") but we still have extra sick days.

The main difference is that PTO (or vacation days) accrue whereas sick days don't.

Usually that combines vacation, sick and personal time, at s net loss to the employee.

2 weeks + 10ish federal holidays is pretty standard for professional white collar office jobs. Works out to about 4 work weeks.

VS 4 weeks plus holidays in many European counties.

No matter how you cut it, we absolutely suck at time off. And even when companies offer it people don’t take it because the culture discourages it.

He’s right to be smug about it. We need to change the culture here.

Yeah but y'all get paid less

Yes, and smugness from Europeans is the way to do that.

It’s also unfair to consider things like vacation time, parental leave, and universal healthcare (the prime topics for smug) without also considering economic growth rates, employment levels, and overall comp, particularly for white collar workers.

The story in America vs the EU isn’t one of their paradise vs our hellscape. It’s one of inequality. Life for the poor or middle class in America sucks compared to Europe. But if you’re lucky enough to be an employed white collar worker in America, you don’t have it much worse, if at all, than the average white collar European. Open to data proving otherwise.

For what it’s worth, I too want more vacation time, better parental leave, and universal healthcare in the US. But they come at a cost, and we shouldn’t pretend otherwise.

I'm not smug, I think the workers in the US get a shitty deal. It's a major reason I wouldn't want to work there. (The same reason I wouldn't work in the games industry in the UK).

That’s a common misconception. Many workers in the US get screwed. But definitely not all. Software devs in the US are almost unquestionably better off when you take total comp into account.

“But if you’re lucky enough to be an employed white collar worker in America, you don’t have it much worse, if at all, than the average white collar European.”

America? Fuck yeah?!?!

Maybe you meant that with an air of condescension, but anecdotally I can vouch he’s right. I have family in Europe with white collar jobs and they really are no better off than an equivalent white collar American worker despite what people seem to think.

In Germany a lot of people get 30 days plus(!) more public holidays than the US so it's probably closer to double.

The minimum in the EU is 4 weeks, with many countries having 5 weeks. On top of that most countries have ~10 paid public holidays. So the real span is 30-35 days. If you work a government job or get older it is usually an additional 5 days. So at least in northern Europe people usually take four continuous weeks in the summer, one week at Christmas, one week for winter activities and maybe two additional long weekends. Sick leave is separate and not earned like vacation days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...

Plus a lot of offices are closed over Christmas to New Years. Not most, but many.

+ 2 weeks sick leave + x hours vacation/year of employment