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Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by jgh on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:06PM (#16215718)
I honestly hope the utopian dream is smashed in the cryptocurrency community. It's not the kind of "utopia" I want to be a part of. I like the technical ideas behind cryptocurrency, but the terrible political views are off-putting.
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by tenaciousDaniel on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:15PM (#16215803)
I'm legitimately interested in cryptocurrency; I think it's a really cool idea. So what I'm hoping for is that everything goes as horribly wrong as possible, the price tanks, everyone's dreams are smashed, and all the bullshit takes disappear.

At that point, the people who are interested in building something worthwhile will be the only ones who remain, and we can work in peace.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by hectorr1 on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:32PM (#16216004)
When did you find out about cryptocurrency?

Because this has already happened in 2014-2016. It happened before that too. Each time the speculative bubble rises, it is being driven at first by improvements to the tech and/or ecosystem. Then it gets a life of its own, goes crazy, and runs out of gas. But along the way, more people learn about it and decide they care enough to continue the project.

Even if you are only in it for the money, the tech matters. Because the closer you are to the tech, the better you understand where the long term value will be, and when the price has outrun that value.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by tenaciousDaniel on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:34PM (#16217393)
I really got into it in a little over a year ago. I first heard about it about 4 years ago though. I'm sure there are ebbs and flows, but this time around does seem different, given that my tech-illiterate family members were asking me about it over the holidays.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it seems inescapable.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by adwhit on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:27PM (#16215944)
Is there an altcoin which is indefinitely and exponentionally inflationary? Such a coin would not have the gold-rush/ponzi characteristics which bitcoin has, and there wouldn't be a such huge incentive to mine new coins so hopefully it would avoid the incredibly wasteful mining arms race.

But no one would get rich quick, so it would probably never take off in the first place.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by pjkundert on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:50PM (#16216201)
I think the concept you're looking for is "value stable".

Right now we're seeing the tip of the iceberg of potential cryptocurrencies. Pretty much only token-based (ie. non-ledger) based currencies, where we need global BFT consensus to track the current position of every single coin. This is crazy. And, as it turns out, unnecessary (see: Holochain).

When the iceberg capsizes (as Git capsized the CASE industry), globally consistent ledger-based value-stable currencies based on peer-to-peer co-signed personal blockchains will supplant these unnecessary globally consistent token based ... things. (Do I really care that you just slid a nickel across the table to someone? Nope). Same with crazy Turing-complete globally consistent VMs implementing Smart Contract languages. Not necessary.

You are correct -- value-stable currencies won't have anyone getting rich quick. But, when every sub-saharan goat herder and neighbourhood kid with a collection of trading cards can independently monetize his/her wealth into a value-stable currency, we'll see the face ripped off of the global Fiat monetary systems...

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by tenaciousDaniel on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:59PM (#16217049)
I know of only two: Tether and Dai

https://tether.to/

https://makerdao.com

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by conanbatt on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @11:23PM (#16220300)
Because thats how we got such perfectly tuned markets like housing, stocks, international trade, debt. They never break down after one big crisis that takes lots of people down with them.
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by jgh on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:19PM (#16215858)
I'm sure that there will be some kind of reckoning at some point. Who knows though, maybe prices will just stabilize to the point that it becomes another boring equity.
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by runeks on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:08PM (#16216411)
> I like the technical ideas behind cryptocurrency, but the terrible political views are off-putting.

Which political views? I read the article and only saw a view on money, not politics.

What’s being criticized is the very idea that money should involve politics.

The argument is that we should be as free to choose which kind of money we use as we are to choose which kind of car we use. There should be no law giving competitive advantage — in the form of legal tender law, and the absence of choosing which numeraire to use as the basis for calculating capital gains tax — to currencies issued by central banks with whom the government has an account.

It’s entirely possible to deliver an argument for the separation of government and money without criticizing either in and of itself. It’s very much like arguing for the separation of church and state without saying anything negative about either of the two in isolation.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by jgh on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:24PM (#16216633)
I wasn't referencing the article. There are a lot of people in the cryptocurrency community (spend some time in telegram rooms, reading blog posts, etc) that push a very libertarian/anarcho-capitalist agenda.

I obviously don't think anything is wrong with using alternative currencies, but I'm not sure that separation of currency and state can happen the same way separation of church and state has. Even if the government doesn't control the issuance of currency they will undoubtedly have an outsized influence on whatever currency they choose to support.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by runeks on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:03PM (#16217085)
> I obviously don't think anything is wrong with using alternative currencies, but I'm not sure that separation of currency and state can happen the same way separation of church and state has. Even if the government doesn't control the issuance of currency they will undoubtedly have an outsized influence on whatever currency they choose to support.

I honestly don’t see the big difference: the people, by voting on representatives, choose both which religions and means of payment the government accepts (assuming a democracy, of course).

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by arisAlexis on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @09:32PM (#16219865)
are you talking about rotten bank bailouts? yes terrible policies
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by pjkundert on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:39PM (#16216077)
While claiming the principles of Liberty for yourself (deciding what kind of "utopia" you want to be part of), would you deny that choice to others?

This is perhaps what separates libertarians from liberals, conservatives, socialists, etc.: we simply do not deny others the liberty we claim for ourselves.

If a monetary system that cannot be debased/controlled by government is available, does that not allow you to elect to create and/or join a community of similar beliefs? Or, would you prefer that I (or someone else) be able to gain control of your government, and then choose to make it (financially) impossible for you to choose your associations and/or behaviors?

Or, perhaps: does your "utopia" require others to fund it, in order for it to work? This is, unfortunately, the case with most people's personal beliefs. They require the non-consensual forced effort of others to succeed...

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by dang on Saturday January 27, 2018 @03:51PM (#16248026)
Please don't use HN for generic ideological arguments, even when—especially when—other commenters are already tilting in that direction. It inevitably takes HN threads into black holes that are always the same, and therefore always off topic here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by simias on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:14PM (#16216509)
I hope one day we'll perfect space travel and be able to colonize the galaxy. Then for quite a while we'll have so many planets and resources that every human being could destroy a planet every day and we'll still have no fear of running out.

In the unlikely situation where this happens and I'm alive to experience it, I'll be the most extremist libertarian you've ever seen. "You don't like this? Just create your own community on some planet a few light years from there and do your thing." Communists colonize their own little solar system, anarchists cohabitate in an other, fascists create the Germania consortium.

But that's not the world we live in currently. We're all stuck on the same speck of dust in the middle of an absurdly large ocean of empty space. So yeah, for now unfortunately it means we have to play nice with each other and compromise. Whether you like it or not you're part of a society.

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by sethrin on Wednesday January 24, 2018 @02:04PM (#16225365)
What libertarians deny is reality itself. Government is defined as a monopoly on violence. Non-coercive government is a contradiction in terms.
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by dang on Saturday January 27, 2018 @03:49PM (#16248021)
> What libertarians deny is reality itself.

Please keep generic ideological bickering off HN. It's always the same, therefore never interesting in the local sense of the word.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by pjkundert on Friday January 26, 2018 @05:30PM (#16243442)
What straw-man libertarians deny... what real libertarians do is agree with bounds on government power that respect the liberty of all,to as great an extent as possible while protecting the community from attack.
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by VVyattPrentice on Friday January 26, 2018 @10:27PM (#16244676)
So slavery? cool? You're cool with slavery? Just want to be sure we're using the same definition of liberty here.
Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by dang on Saturday January 27, 2018 @03:48PM (#16248018)
Could you please not use HN for ideological battle? That's destructive of what the site is for, so we eventually have to moderate accounts that do it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by pjkundert on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:01PM (#16216319)
I think we probably agree on most things re: utopia, cryptocurrencies vs. gov't control.

I'm not sure about your claim that valuing liberty for myself and others is about "taking as much as you can for yourself", though...

Re:Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Author of Black Swan, on Bitcoin by platz on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:57PM (#16217024)
you guys, what even is "liberty".

if in in fact you are referring to competing for resources in a zero-sum game, that is a different thing than say, Free Speech.