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Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by pfarnsworth on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:01PM (#16191367)
This is list reeks of entitlement.

> If it's a "seller's market", why do so many developers work under onerous IP contracts that grant their employers rights to what they build in their spare time?

Most developers don't have any IP to lose. If you have IP to lose then you can find a company that won't ask you to sign onerous contracts.

> If it's a "seller's market", why do so many developers work in noisy bullpen environments where they have to blast music into their ears with headphones to focus their attention on what they're building?

This is entitlement. Open office saves money. The only option that saves you from wearing headphones is a private office per programmer, which is rare (I think Microsoft still does this). The next common options is cubicles but you still need to wear headphones.

> If it's a "seller's market", why do so many developers have stories about working late at night and on weekends to ship features on bogus accelerated schedules they had little hand in setting?

We are well paid to get our work done. Doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, accountants all work as much or even longer hours. Also bad managers create bad schedules and bad cultures, this is across fields.

> If it's a "seller's market", why do so many developers accept payment in the form of equity that has to be executed at great expense immediately after leaving the company, and offers no actual guarantee of return after making that investment?

"Great expense" is an exaggeration. Other career paths don't have equity. 80% of the companies I've worked at gave me worthless equity. It's the game that we play. The other 20% made me ~$500k.

> If it's a "seller's market", why are developers forced to move to the most expensive real estate markets in the country to work every day from a particular office when their work can be done more productively from their own home offices?

No one is forced to move anywhere. People want to move here, still.

> If it's a "seller's market", why are so many developers compensated with equity whose terms they're not even allowed to fully understand? And why is it that their common shares are last in line after liquidation preferences and VCs take their rake?

"Not even allowed to understand"? That's a lie. If you work for a shitty company that isn't transparent, you can leave and work for another company that is. That's a seller's market.

Tech workers are generally much happier than other professions. Until that changes, you will never get unions. I hope it never happens, and I will never join a union, and I personally don't know a single programmer that wants to as well. Those that want unions are in the vast minority, and are much louder on forums like Hacker News, but it won't get much traction unless there's another dotcom bust.

Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by tptacek on Saturday January 20, 2018 @09:31AM (#16193456)
On the other hand, my comment ranks (by votes) among the top 0.3% I've written on the site, while yours has been voted down so far after 13 hours that it's hard to read (I didn't downvote you). We're both software developers, we've both been in the industry for comparably long periods of time, but it feels like maybe one of us is saying something that better resonates with our peers.

It'd be interesting to see if, having pointed this out, the voting spread changes. I'd like a truer accounting, if there's one to be had!

Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by pfarnsworth on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:12AM (#16193831)
Lol come on Thomas. That is probably the most pathetic comment I’ve seen you write. Worthless internet karma is a validation of your ideas? Did all your upvotes for starfighter on hacker news actually turn it into a real business or was it a failure in real life?

Why not try to publicize this ideaand see how much real traction you get? (spoiler alert: zero because most developers don’t want it)

Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by tptacek on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:16AM (#16193845)
1. Starfighter did not seem to me at the time to be beloved by HN.

2. Starfighter is one of 3 companies I've been involved in publicly on HN. The first one did pretty good. We're doing pretty good with this one. Thanks for asking! :)

3. There's an obvious difference between the question of whether something's a viable business (CTFs as contingency recruiters: probably not!) vs. whether an argument represents any kind of popular sentiment.

4. Do upvotes validate my argument? No. But they would seem to me to rebut your claim to speak for "most developers".

What kind of publication were you thinking of?

Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by pfarnsworth on Saturday January 20, 2018 @12:04PM (#16194088)
I’m glad your first and current ventures are successful. Hardworking people should be rewarded. My point is HN love has no bearing on success. Starfighter was pretty popular and everyone on HN wants a new way to interview. But it didn’t translate to a success.

A converse example is Uber. Uber is despised on HN and every anti-Uber comment is upvoted. But HN sentiment has had no consequence on Uber’s success and growth.

“Most developers” don’t comment on HN. Most developers also don’t want unions otherwise we would have had one in the 50 years of industry, despite all your precious HN upvotes.

Also, your misrepresentation of “publicize” into “publication” is strange.

Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by tptacek on Saturday January 20, 2018 @12:57PM (#16194421)
Right, but no part of Uber's "argument" depends on the support of HN users. You can't say that, at least not cleanly, about organizing SFBA software developers.
Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by pvg on Saturday January 20, 2018 @10:46AM (#16193727)
Ew. Don't be that guy.
Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by tptacek on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:12AM (#16193828)
Oh, come on. If all my comments are going to be arbitrarily voted up at least I should be able to occasionally put that to good use.
Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by pvg on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:26AM (#16193895)
What is the good use? The thing you're replying to is yelly and rude but 'I'm right because upvotes and you're gray' is just icky.
Re:Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on... by tptacek on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:28AM (#16193917)
I'm not saying "I'm right because I'm upvoted". I'm saying that his argument that I'm out in the wilderness on this issue is wrong because of that. He has more than one argument. I'm just refuting that one.

It felt icky writing that comment upthread, but, I figured, what the hell, let's see what happens.