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Re:Reverse-engineering FPGAs [video] by adwn on Friday January 19, 2018 @06:21AM (#16185428)
> The fact that digital logic design is constrained to one of two ancient languages by the proprietary toolsets is a serious problem.

Not really. You can compile any high-level language to a netlist and use that as input for place&route. Even if the proprietary toolchain didn't support EDIF netlists, you could still compile to a purely structural VHDL/Verilog file with the instantiated FPGA logic primitives (LUTs, nets, etc.), which is basically

The main (but not the only) reason why VHDL and Verilog have not been replaced yet, is that nearly all supposedly "better" alternatives fail to address the actual pain points in FPGA design. The most likely cause for this is that the overlap between professional FPGA designers and people capable and willing of designing and implementing a language is very, very small. The result is that you get a lot of languages designed by people who have never programmed larger FPGAs in a professional setting and consequently don't have a good understanding of the problems involved.

Re:Reverse-engineering FPGAs [video] by moring on Friday January 19, 2018 @06:31AM (#16185463)
Do you have any good source of what these problems are? The reason I am asking is because I too am designing my home-grown HDL at the moment because I grew tired of both Verilog and VHDL. Since I never programmed FPGAs professionally -- the whole thing is a pet project only -- I'm likely to repeat those mistakes because I don't even know about them.

Note that I don't expect problems in the basics of language design and building tools, but rather specific mistakes in the context of FPGAs.

Re:Reverse-engineering FPGAs [video] by ChickeNES on Friday January 19, 2018 @06:11PM (#16190814)
I'm curious to know more about your HDL, as I'm also working on an HDL of my own.
Re:Reverse-engineering FPGAs [video] by moring on Saturday January 20, 2018 @05:43AM (#16192901)
The code is at https://github.com/MartinGeisse/mahdl-plugin

Feel free to open an issue on GitHub to start a discussion. (I'm hesitant to post my private email address here -- old habits.)

Re:Reverse-engineering FPGAs [video] by anfilt on Friday January 19, 2018 @06:41AM (#16185496)
It's actually kinda funny you mentioned designed without understanding FPGA development. VHDL predates FPGAs. Further, there are a lot of features that exist that are un-synthesizable. Some belong to the analog world. Some can't even be really even be used to build a real device.
Re:Reverse-engineering FPGAs [video] by adwn on Friday January 19, 2018 @07:55AM (#16185846)
Don't get me wrong – VHDL is a terrible language for design and verification (just like Verilog). Some of those new high-level languages are actually better than VHDL and Verilog, but not sufficiently better to overcome the momentum of the old languages.

> VHDL predates FPGAs

I was using "FPGA design" as a placeholder for digital logic design in general, given that by far the most VHDL and Verilog is written for FPGAs today.