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Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by tabeth on Thursday January 18, 2018 @01:41PM (#16179972)
Isn't it impossible to win the game of blocking headless browsers?

What's stopping someone from creating an API that opens up a real browser, uses a real (or virtual) keyboard, types in/clicks the real address, etc. then proceeds to use computer vision to scrape the information from the page without touching the DOM?

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by dsjoerg on Thursday January 18, 2018 @02:19PM (#16180371)
You are in principle correct, but in practice you need to account for the side channels of information as well -- does the mouse and keyboard behave like a human or a robot? Are there thousands upon thousands of sessions coming from the same IP address?

The cat and mouse game happens at every level, not just the DOM/browser-detection level.

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by nicklaf on Thursday January 18, 2018 @02:45PM (#16180631)
So record actual user input data and generate similar input patterns stochastically.

That said if you try to scale this up beyond what a reasonable, normal user world do in one sitting, you are bound to stand out.

Although that said, I find that I trigger such rate-limiting mechanisms already as a human just when searching Google as a human being and clicking through every last search result page.

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by averagewall on Thursday January 18, 2018 @03:07PM (#16180839)
You'd have to scrape slowly to mimic a real slow user. Maybe at that point you'd be cheaper to get Mechanical Turk to do it. That should solve IP rate limiting, captchas, and just about everything except the endless arms race. Why are so many people going directly to these same-formatted internal URLs without clicking through from random other places? So the site can change the internal URLs and break it all over again.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by toomuchtodo on Thursday January 18, 2018 @09:43PM (#16183749)
You'd use a browser extension, scoped to requests of sites you're interested in, and stream your data back to your infrastructure for processing. You're limited only by your install base and your ingest infrastructure.

Recap [1] does this to extract PACER court documents that are public domain, but access is restricted due to draconian public policy.

[1] https://free.law/recap/

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by figgis on Thursday January 18, 2018 @03:13PM (#16180894)
>You'd have to scrape slowly to mimic a real slow user.

Sure, but that's easily mitigated by running multiple scrapers as different users.. You don't need to get all the data from a single scrape.

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by patcheudor on Thursday January 18, 2018 @02:43PM (#16180619)
>Are there thousands upon thousands of sessions coming from the same IP address?

As someone who routinely works behind proxies, I can sympathize strongly with this statement:

"The one thing that I was really trying to get across in writing that is that blocking site visitors based on browser fingerprinting is an extremely user-hostile practice."

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by bryanrasmussen on Thursday January 18, 2018 @02:19PM (#16180372)
well headless browsers exist because they are less expensive to automate than real browsers, adding in the computer vision and the scraper just added a lot of expense.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by ThrustVectoring on Thursday January 18, 2018 @01:45PM (#16180015)
There's a similar "analog hole" for video DRM, too.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by mr_toad on Thursday January 18, 2018 @05:11PM (#16182019)
I wonder how long it will be before someone comes up with the idea of using iPhone style facial recognition to tell whether a human is looking at the TV/Monitor or not.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by ThrustVectoring on Thursday January 18, 2018 @08:54PM (#16183477)
Oh please no, exposing those sorts of APIs will quickly be utilized by ad-tech guys to make interstitial video ads that don't go away until you finish watching them.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by nicklaf on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:07AM (#16184257)
Black Mirror S01E02
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by calebegg on Thursday January 18, 2018 @03:33PM (#16181108)
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by srirachahot on Thursday January 18, 2018 @03:04PM (#16180809)
One simple reason is resource cost. Having a non headless browser is more expensive. Therefore at scale you are wasting resources.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by adrianmonk on Thursday January 18, 2018 @03:08PM (#16180844)
Yes, it's more expensive than a headless browser. Impossible to say, though, whether it's more expensive than can be justified in achieving an objective until that objective is known.
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by temuze on Thursday January 18, 2018 @05:42PM (#16182316)
Or just recompile Chromium with a few changes ;)
Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by roywiggins on Thursday January 18, 2018 @02:20PM (#16180390)
Rate-limiting followed by CAPTCHAs seems to be the usual strategy.

I think Google claims to try to detect humans by parsing out their mouse movements and scroll events.

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by nicklaf on Thursday January 18, 2018 @02:51PM (#16180689)
And I can attest that they often presume that I'm a robot.

At this point it would be easier for me to write an alternative frontend to Google search (or just use duckduckgo), but it was be amusing to think that I might evade this by writing a script to simulate mouse movements to appear less robotic.

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by mehrdadn on Thursday January 18, 2018 @04:00PM (#16181395)
> And I can attest that they often presume that I'm a robot.

In my experience this occurs when you are either doing this too much, or you are not accepting their cookies when logged in. (I don't recall the behavior when logged out.)

Re:It is not possible to detect and block Chrome headless by nicklaf on Friday January 19, 2018 @12:09AM (#16184264)
For the record: I was logged out / incognito.

Actually, for whatever reason, this also often seems to cause reCapcha to essentially hellban me and just keep asking for me to solve an endless series of capchas. :/