Rust in 2018: easier to use

Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by grayrest on Sunday January 14, 2018 @03:01AM (#16143279)

I expect a "it's easier to use" evangelism push around the upcoming epoch release. There are a bunch of mostly completed but still feature flagged changes that should remove a lot of the borrow checker toe stubbing. Getting rustfmt (formatter) and clippy (linter) on stable Rust would ideally be part of the push.

Aside from the almost completed features in the pipeline, I only see procedural macros (macros 2.0) and whatever happens to make async code easier to write[1] really impacting day-to-day code for most people.

[1] I'd really like to see F# Computation Expressions instead of async/await. I know the language experts have said Haskell-like do notation doesn't work in Rust but I'm not sure if the F# tweaks would make it work or not.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by bjz_ on Sunday January 14, 2018 @09:37AM (#16144399)

> [1] I'd really like to see F# Computation Expressions instead of async/await. I know the language experts have said Haskell-like do notation doesn't work in Rust but I'm not sure if the F# tweaks would make it work or not.

I'd prefer a systems-y, zero-cost take on algebraic effects, similar to what OCaml is going to get. Could be much more extensible, and open things up to annotating whether functions panic or not, access global state, etc. Alas it's still a tricky research problem, even after all these years. There were some nice discussions from ICFP here - the comments strayed into talking about how effects might be implemented without a GC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNp3ifNpgPM

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by lobster_johnson on Sunday January 14, 2018 @02:37PM (#16145859)

Is there a paper or writeup anywhere on what the algebraic effects system coming to OCaml is going to be like? (Does it have a name that can be googled?)

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by grayrest on Sunday January 14, 2018 @02:54PM (#16145985)

It's part of the Multicore OCaml [1] effort.

[1] https://github.com/ocamllabs/ocaml-multicore/wiki

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by jeremyjh on Sunday January 14, 2018 @09:36AM (#16144392)

You can already get “Monad comprehensions” through the mdo and mdo-futures crates.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by curiousGambler on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:16AM (#16143443)

Why anyone would name anything "clippy" again is beyond me.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by llogiq on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:14AM (#16143767)

One of clippy's authors and maintainers here (though I didn't choose the name); why would you name such a program "lint"?

For me clippy evokes the image of a well-meaning, if at times clumsy helper that tries to nudge you in the right direction. I find that very fitting for a tool that...well...tries to nudge you in the right direction of writing good, fast, idiomatic code.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by jgtrosh on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:27AM (#16143467)

Clippy is reborn from its ashes into a cultural icon; it made you react, therefore it's a fun name to choose. Kakoune uses a clippy ASCII art for its immediate help, it's nice.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by bjz_ on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:38AM (#16143842)

> Kakoune uses a clippy ASCII art for its immediate help, it's nice.

Had to look this up - very cute!

https://github.com/mawww/kakoune#screenshots

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mawww/kakoune/master/doc/s...

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by tomsmeding on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:46AM (#16143870)

Their choice of executable name is slightly unfortunate in Dutch, where 'kak' basically means 'shit'.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by elygre on Sunday January 14, 2018 @07:07AM (#16143927)

I think “kak” would be better translated as “poo”. Parents will routinely talk to their kids about “kak”, similar to the way US parents will use the word “poo”. The word “shit” generally has a much stronger meaning (and is therefore often obscured, as “s..t” or something similar.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by lieuwex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:00PM (#16147048)

I think "kak" still would be translated better as "shit", you wouldn't curse with "POO!". But in Dutch you can curse with "KAK!", just as 'SH*T!' in English.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by ilammy on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:55AM (#16143902)

Eastern Slavic languages like Russian also give a similar vibe to this word ('shitter').

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by 534b44a on Sunday January 14, 2018 @08:55AM (#16144241)

Какаю would the translated to "I poo" (hence Кака would be "poo"). Срач would be the stronger word in Russian [1].

[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by d33 on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:19AM (#16143784)

What's wrong with this name?

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by gravypod on Sunday January 14, 2018 @08:14AM (#16144123)

Probably trademarks and copyrights.

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Re:Rust in 2018: easier to use by wongarsu on Sunday January 14, 2018 @01:07PM (#16145374)

Copyright doesn't apply to names, and the only US trademark for "clippy" is for medical equipment (and thus doesn't apply here) [1]. There doesn't seem to be any EU trademark for "clippy"

1: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3At...

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