There's a reason why after the total smoking bans in American prisons, cigarettes were displaced as a de facto currency by... instant ramen.

And Tuna packets!

there are other way to "punish proactively", malnutrition is not one of them, it's silly.

The argument that "there are starving people in Africa, so the most unfortunate in the US should just count their blessings" is incredibly tiresome and essentially justifies an abusive system. Can we not do this?

You're missing the point. Getting to eat chicken with Fritos is not abuse.

Being forced to eat chicken and Fritos, in spite of having serious health problems that they exacerbate, absolutely is abuse. This also goes on in the treatment of the homeless in the US where they are told to be grateful to have any food at all, never mind that it is making their diabetes or other health issues worse and will lead to an early death, the need to amputate a foot and/or other horrors.

Moving the goal posts entirely away from the current discussion of food in no way justifies your initial comment. Stating it in a manner that kind of implies I hold certain unpalatable views and would advocate for putting people in prison as a form of housing doesn't make me sympathetic.

There are lots and lots of things wrong in the world. That fact is absolutely not justification for pissing on an idea that is simple, cheap, effective and has real merit as just one piece of the solution to the large puzzle of deeper problems in the US.

Nutrition has played a very, very large role in my ability to solve my personal problems, raise my income and get off the street. It also has played a very large role in gradually making me more psychologically stable. I didn't say that in my initial comment elsewhere in this discussion because I get tired of being told I talk too much about myself, I am just an attention monger, it is merely anecdotal, etc etc etc. But that is why I had the thought that nutrition in prison could play a very serious role in actual rehabilitation.

If you posit that most people in prison are from generally marginalized and poor populations, you can assume many of them never had proper nutrition at all in their lives. Feeding them well so they can grow both stronger and mentally better could be a small means to make prison a way to break the cycle of poverty and desperation, a small means for society to try to make real amends instead of merely heaping more abuse on such people.

Ideally, I would like to see more non-prison programs that are civilized, civilizing, caring and all that. But those are quite hard to create. It is hard to make good programs.

These people are some of the most ill, most destitute, most crapped on by society. None of your points here in any way whatsoever justifies advocating that they should merely be grateful for their chicken and Fritos and otherwise fuck 'em, they can quit their bitching.

>If the people should not be there in the first place, and if they should be rehabilitated instead of punished, that's another matter and should be solved on its face

No, the point of prison IS rehabilitation not punishment. It is senseless, stupid and cruel to punish people even if that does not improve their behavior - it helps no one. And prison is not EITHER punishment OR rehab, its a mix, and the more we move it towards rehab the better it is for everyone.

Besides, your argument is "oh some people in Africa can't eat chicken, so what the fuck is anyone complaining about?" is ridiculous. Some people don't get vaccinations, healthcare, shelter either so by that logic why don't we just throw all the prisoners onto an island huh?

Prisoners are people, not subhuman trash to be discarded as you would like.

Actually the point you made was that it should be considered a gourmet meal, which is slightly different to the argument that it is not abuse.

I'm allergic to chicken- I wouldn't be able to keep it down. So it would be pretty awful for me personally.

There are 100s of millions of vegetarians on this planet. I don't think eating meat or not has much to do with starvation.

If you are going to move the prison population to vegetarian diets, you also need to account for things they may or may not be getting, such as vitamin B12 or vitamin D. It is much easier to feed a group of people a healthy, balanced diet if you use meat products or have the sense to give everyone a good-grade multi-vitamin to be sure. Unfortunately, that makes it harder in the US because of the lax laws surrounding supplements.

I would be the first person to say, as a vegetarian, that forcing everyone in prison to be a vegetarian would be wrong. But that's not the idea that I was responding to: the idea I was responding to is the notion that vegetarians are starving.

By all means, take a vitamin if you need one.

I've been to jail, and it is worse than in Africa

Name me a demographic impacted by famine which also doesn`t consume meat.