News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by agumonkey on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:38PM (#16099547)
> What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people?

> Playing fucking candy crush.

This is my go to rant for the last few years. Not the fact the people do play silly games, but the whole surrounding myth "computing era is paradise of heavens, highway of information to make your life better, only need an better octocore for your digital life !" ..

this computer era is problem trying to find its solutions.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by swiley on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:08PM (#16099900)
They solve some problems:

I remember carrying around physical reference materials for my ti84+ because back before smartphones there wasn't instantaneous access to stuff like that and the calculator's memory got cleared too often (and was probably too small, not to mention the horrible screen) to hold it for me.

They're like knives: in the hands of someone with self control they can extend what you're capable of but they can also be abused by the owner and the people around him.

I taught myself my first instrument last year and being able to look up reference material while my laptop wasn't around was super convenient. At night I watch OCW lectures from math and physics classes I can't afford to take, and I have instant access to an incredible collections of art, music, and literature.

The problem with smart phones is due to the misalignment (almost inversion) of profit incentives of application developers and application users. This wouldn't be such a problem either if it weren't for the increasingly popular idea that application developers need special training and the computer configuration should be left to special experts (in the name of security or DRM or whatever) which severely limits the creation and adoption of community maintained software that is more likely to serve the user's interests.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by arca_vorago on Monday January 08, 2018 @06:46PM (#16102073)
It cracks me up because that's what I used to say about solitaire. You mean you built a $4,000 computer and are now playing solitaire on it?

The real problem is see is more about the ecosystem though. The user controlled their pc (to a certain extent), but the user has so little control over mobile devices that they get fed what advertisers and companies want them to see.

It really feels like corporations and governments are sucking everything good about the internet out (anarchistic freedom of though, discovery of free information, etc).

What I see is a future where computer scientists and hackers are extremely powerful because they understand and (can) control their own systems, but the majority of the people are beholden to some combination of orwellian ecosystems seeking to control and profit off them.

Once again, this is why I think RMS was and is right and we need to start pushing more copyleft now.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by twostoned on Monday January 08, 2018 @10:20PM (#16103320)
I agree with this. Mobile to me seems boring but I grew up in an age, and with a cohort, who was much more into messing about with computers and seeing what we could do with them.

Mobile seems so restricted and I'm always amazed by how effectively distracted by phones people generally are. The games and apps to me seem utterly boring in comparison to hacking about on some open source project, making games, or working on something. Computers are fun, and were always fun because you could do so many things. iOS seems like a bunch of lame apps and a web browser with a camera somehow wedged in there.

I'm friends with a Computer Engineer who just finished his undergrad and he doesn't have the hacker spirit at all. I doubt he even knows who Stallman is and considers some of the most basic config a huge hassle. I don't think this is necessarily a reflection of Engineers in general but I always wonder why he studied computers at all. He doesn't seem to enjoy them.

I remember when what.cd was taken down someone on reddit saying, perhaps hyperbolically (perhaps not) something like, "this has ruined the internet for me; it's no longer for fun. only work" or something along those lines. I always think of that comment and don't really disagree with it: as this technology ages and matures the things that made it fun or interesting in the first place to me seem to be slowly getting destroyed. All these little battles keep getting lost and as time progresses it's just kind of "meh..". Instead of wondering what we can do with computers maybe we're finding out?

Proverbs for Paranoids #3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers. --Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by purplethinking on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @03:27AM (#16104483)
About your friend, I feel some sympathy. I feel I have a huge disadvantage growing up starting with Windows (early 90s). Graphical UIs are great for usability but they hamper understanding of the underlying systems. Even though I loved computers, it took me way too long to get into programming as a result. Part of that is also that I had no mentor around to guide me.

I tend to hate configuring things and getting other people's software working the first time, but once things are set up I love programming and algorithmic work.

I can only imagine how opaque these small black rectangles are to the younger generations. Without a mentor, preferably a programmer mom or dad, I don't think kids would even know where to start. Sure, you can find all this stuff online, but the problem is that you can't learn much by just playing around anymore.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by dasil003 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:45AM (#16104116)
I also came up in the dawn of the PC era, when it was truly a hobbyists paradise. I don't think the hacker spirit is gone, it's just drowned out by the big business of tech which didn't really start to make in-roads with individuals until ~20 years ago. Distasteful as popular tech maybe today, look on the bright side: it's never been easier or cheaper to build cool shit. The only issue is sifting through the ubiquitous advertising, self-promotion and hype to find the genuinely cool stuff.
Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by javajosh on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:07PM (#16100587)
>this computer era is problem trying to find its solutions.

I don't think this is true. I watched a local mechanic fixing my car, and YouTube was an important tool for them. Watching someone else fix a car was much more effective than reading a schematic. Finding part numbers was easy. Ordering them was easy. I strongly suspect that health care people do the same thing (but don't want to admit it and do it behind closed doors). Certainly lawyers do this, via Lexis Nexis.

For anyone doing creative technical work, the Internet is wonderful. You can find authors, papers, howtos, videos, etc. Of course a good 80% of this content is awful bordering on harmful, but that 20% is vast. For software, HN manages to capture a large fraction of that 20%, IMHO.

It's also true that smartphones have brought addictive gaming behavior to the masses. But if you can avoid this then you've got a great resource.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by IpV8 on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:58PM (#16099798)
I mean, the massive progress in science, medical, renewable energy, etc. are pretty good problems to be solving. The silly games and facebooks are only a problem for those who choose to participate in them.
Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by Chaebixi on Monday January 08, 2018 @06:32PM (#16101977)
> The silly games and facebooks are only a problem for those who choose to participate in them.

This is a bad argument. Usually it's not an informed choice, often made by someone who's immature.

Also, some of the...

> massive progress in science, medical, renewable energy, etc.

...was used to make stuff like...

>>> Playing fucking candy crush.

...as addicting as possible.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by ken on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:20PM (#16100052)
I understood the point of the article to be that it's addictive -- and intentionally so.

"...smartphones hook people using the same neural pathways as gambling and drugs."

We have laws regulating the others. Or in some countries, treatment programs. But either way, we don't just say "Cocaine is only a problem for those who choose to use it".

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by rock_hard on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @12:42AM (#16103892)
Making cocaine illegal hasn’t been too successful either though :(

We would be better of learning from the war on drugs that “Wars” don’t solve any problem...but sitting down, listening and providing help to addicts does!

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by agumonkey on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:02PM (#16099845)
I stopped believing in progress personally. Progress doesn't help you in many important part of life. We're spending too much time on science, and often to fix economic / political errors of the past.
Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by worldsayshi on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:20PM (#16100056)
I empathize with what you're saying. But the error is in the meaning we put into the word "progress".

We need to talk a lot more about "false progress". Because that's what it is if we create more problems than we solve when society changes.

It would be irrational to not believe in "true progress", any change that solves more of our common problems than it creates new one's.

If we can't have true progress then human society has kind of lost its point. It seems illogical to say that it's not possible. But we often seem lost at adopting the right process for it.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by IpV8 on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:12PM (#16099948)
Interesting. Personally, I enjoy living in a world where my friends have overcome cancer, where I can spend < 1 hour a day focusing in food, and I am able to travel halfway around the world to experience machu picchu and be back by then next monday. At what point do you think we stopped productively progressing? Have you considered joining an Amish community?
Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by jstarfish on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:26PM (#16101365)
> At what point do you think we stopped productively progressing? Have you considered joining an Amish community?

For all the miraculous cancer drugs we develop, we don't spend enough time or effort making sure they're obtainable by actual cancer patients. All of the "advances" you tout are only available to a certain privileged class of first-world citizens.

It's great you have access to prepared food and an airplane, but for those who aren't part of the jet-set, no progress has been made in addressing or solving any of their problems or making their lives easier.

There's no app to make daycare more affordable for single parents. Laundry doesn't do itself any better than it did 50 years ago. The blockchain doesn't hold police accountable for shooting unarmed civilians during traffic stops. Owning a smartphone doesn't provide you with competent or affordable legal representation when you need it most. Having a GPS transmitter on your person still can't reliably help 911 operators guide first responders to the actual scene of an incident. Nobody dependent on public transit to get to their retail job is saving up for a Tesla. Public schools are still underfunded, and we have entire generations with underdeveloped critical thinking skills plugged into a global network of lies and misinformation for most of their waking hours.

It's obvious none of these things affect you, but come on. At least pretend like the little people exist. The answer to a perceived lack of social progress is not suggesting the dissatisfied should renounce materialism and adopt someone else's rural way of life.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by agumonkey on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:40PM (#16100289)
I do think about amish lifestyle a lot.

curing cancer is a worthy endeavor that is not on the same plane as most technology we spend time talking about (believe me I wish I could have saved some family members)

experiencing machu picchu and coming back in a week .. feels pointless to me. time is required to experience things fully. there's a middle ground between risking your life on a boat for 6 months before reaching south america and uber fast tourism.

And in a way I think that only people that really want to go the distance should travel.

The old agricultural system was too demanding it's true, but it's not removing it that makes life better. See how people eat shitty things, waste meat etc .. Also with proper education, one can go really far if he knows how to use energy, even without heavy industry behind.

It's a shifting plane, new ideas create new societies, they don't make the previous one better.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by r565656 on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:11PM (#16101194)
>The old agricultural system was too demanding it's true, but it's not removing it that makes life better. See how people eat shitty things, waste meat etc .. Also with proper education, one can go really far if he knows how to use energy, even without heavy industry behind.

>It's a shifting plane, new ideas create new societies, they don't make the previous one better.

Would you mind explaining this more? It sounds rather cryptic to me the way you are saying it.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by agumonkey on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:50PM (#16101588)
It's a bit of wild speculation but you don't need industry to save you time.

Solar concentrator (lens, mirror) can harvest large amount of energy.

Proper use of levers and gears can make you move tons with your fingers (although you need experience), see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pZ7uR6v8c and the likes

You don't need to reproduce horse plow with an oil based engine.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by factoring_ta on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @03:46AM (#16104560)
Interesting 3 examples.

Curing cancer is obviously positive progress. No-one who has cancer would prefer 19th century medicine.

Spending less than 1 hour a day focusing on food seems less clear-cut. It's really good not to starve or think you might starve, and we are really lucky that we don't have to spend most of the day meeting our basic nutritional needs. There also seems to be a risk that we put not enough thought into taking care of and fulfilling our biological needs, because we can. We can't escape food, sex, exercise and other meatspace needs, and attempts to do so often become pathological. If we have to eat, shouldn't we be taking our time and trying to enjoy the full rich experience of doing so?

Similarly, visiting Machu Picchu and being back by Monday seems like a double-edged sword. Maybe it would be worth spending more time in Peru. Does the short stay really allow time to absorb the history of the Incas and how it fits into the present-day culture of people living in the area? In the 19th century, the vast majority of the people living in the United States couldn't visit Europe. But those who did went on a tour for several months to a year, visiting many countries and cities and staying long enough to learn a bit about the language and lifestyle. Were they missing out by not being able to go in a day, take photos in the right places, and get back a few days later?

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by philwelch on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:26PM (#16100755)
Or does it just seem that way because science and technology have already solved so many problems?

"People get distracted by smartphones" is a problem. But so is, "India doesn't produce enough food to feed its people", and that problem had a technological solution. Climate change will require technological solutions. Energy sustainability will require technological solutions. More diseases have been eradicated through science and technology than through any other mechanism.

I'll take a bunch of distracted teenagers over a bunch of crippled teenagers who barely survived polio any day.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by arca_vorago on Monday January 08, 2018 @06:50PM (#16102104)
I think the main issue these days is a lack of root cause analysis, so solutions tend to be superficial. Of course I'm not referencing things like the polio vaccine, but for the past few years my mantra has been "strike at the root", but after I've waded through the branches to get to a root I look up and see hardly anyone else is there, it gets lonely.

Politics is the perfect example of this in my opinion.

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by amelius on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:58AM (#16104879)
> I mean, the massive progress in science, medical, renewable energy, etc. are pretty good problems to be solving.

Yet the greatest minds of our generation are trying to make people click on ads more (forgot who this quote is from)

Re:The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is ... by ben_w on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:53PM (#16100422)
> The silly games and facebooks are only a problem for those who choose to participate in them.

Perhaps. When the question is addiction, who really had free will to choose?