News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by illirik on Saturday January 06, 2018 @12:28PM (#16086314)
One thing to note: "This directive governs border searches of electronic devices -- including... at the extended border." The "extended border" extends a hundred miles from what we normally consider the border; the authorization for customs agents to conduct warrantless searches in the Immigration and Naturalization Act allows them "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States," and the Attorney General defined that distance as a hundred miles. The Supreme Court disagrees (Almeida-Sanchez v. U.S., U.S. v. Martinez-Fuente), and has ruled that border searches can only be done, well, at the border. Under this directive, an importer/exporter headquartered in downtown San Diego would be subject to these searches... a bit scary if the Supreme Court ever overturns its earlier border search decisions.
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by ComputerGuru on Saturday January 06, 2018 @12:42PM (#16086413)
Yes, it’s indeed over the top. Here’s a map by the ACLU: https://goo.gl/images/HpPYby
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by tptacek on Saturday January 06, 2018 @02:34PM (#16087008)
It is indeed over the top. Almost too much to believe. Oh, wait. It is too much to believe.

This notion that any place within 100 miles of a border is a "4th Amendment Free Zone" is an urban legend. The ACLU should stop spreading it.

The exact issue we're talking about here has been tried all the way through the Supreme Court, which found that the border search exemption only applies to people with some nexus to an actual border crossing.

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by dragonwriter on Saturday January 06, 2018 @03:42PM (#16087339)
> The exact issue we're talking about here has been tried all the way through the Supreme Court, which found that the border search exemption only applies to people with some nexus to an actual border crossing.

Wrong. It found that warrantless “border” searches on public highways leading to it away from the Mexican border were legal based on either perceived ethnicity of drivers or passengers or even no individualized basis for suspicion. No nexus between the searched person or vehicle and an actual border crossing beyond being on a road which eventually led to or away from the Mexican border is required.

It's true that the only places that the decision applies to are public highways, not (e.g.) the interior of residences or businesses, so it's not any place. But it's pretty extensive.

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by tptacek on Saturday January 06, 2018 @04:00PM (#16087428)
Which case are you referring to?

Also, I can't tell if you're nitpicking my summary or if you actually do believe there's a 100-mile-wide Constitution-free zone hugging the US border.

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by dragonwriter on Saturday January 06, 2018 @05:02PM (#16087721)
> Which case are you referring to?

Martinez-Fuerte.

> Also, I can't tell if you're nitpicking my summary or if you actually do believe there's a 100-mile-wide Constitution-free zone hugging the US border.

“100-mile Constitution-free zone” is a simplification that, like any simplification, is somewhat inaccurate; there is a broad (unclear as to it's maximum limits, the 100 miles is current executive policy) in which the courts have allowed, in fairly broad circumstances, substantially lower standards for search and seizure than are otherwise Constitutionally applicable in the US, rendering the protections of the Fourth Amendment in practice much weaker.

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by tptacek on Saturday January 06, 2018 @05:41PM (#16087893)
You should re-read it, because it explicitly rebuts the argument you're making. It holds specifically that Almeida-Sanchez stands, and that:

In Almeida-Sanchez v. United States, supra, the question was whether a roving patrol unit constitutionally could search a vehicle for illegal aliens simply because it was in the general vicinity of the border. We recognized that important law enforcement interests were at stake, but held that searches by roving patrols impinged so significantly on Fourth Amendment privacy interests that a search could be conducted without consent only if there was probable cause to believe that a car contained illegal aliens, at least in the absence of a judicial warrant authorizing random searches by roving patrols in a given area. Compare 413 U.S. at 413 U. S. 273, with id. at 413 U. S. 283-285 (POWELL, J., concurring), and id. at 413 U. S. 288 (WHITE, J., dissenting). We held in United States v. Ortiz, supra, that the same limitations applied to vehicle searches conducted at a permanent checkpoint.

It allowed the actions in this case specifically because they were not searches, in the same sense as a traffic stop is not a search, and the police, having pulled your car to the side of a city street for having expired tags, cannot without probable cause demand that you open your trunk to allow inspection.

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by tptacek on Sunday January 07, 2018 @12:58PM (#16091782)
You got kind of quiet there. :)
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by moonka on Saturday January 06, 2018 @01:30PM (#16086692)
"Roughly two-thirds of the United States' population lives within the 100-mile zone."* That's incredibly disturbing.

* https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by mc32 on Saturday January 06, 2018 @01:51PM (#16086794)
When you drive close to the Canadian and Mexican borders I've gone through those inland checkpoints. I've never seen that practiced along the littorals --never. Has anyone seen a checkpoint along the littorals? Curious.
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by RA_Fisher on Saturday January 06, 2018 @01:56PM (#16086825)
Not a checkpoint but I've seen CBP sitting on the Mississippi - Alabama state line multiple times (I10).
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by tptacek on Saturday January 06, 2018 @02:38PM (#16087021)
What Almeida-Sanchez held is that searches under the border search exemption need to be connected somehow to an actual border crossing, not that they need to occur "at the border". But by the logic of Almeida-Sanchez, the "extended border" is a limiting factor for the government: it suggests that whether or not you've recently crossed, if you're more than 100 miles from the crossing, the border search exception no longer applies.
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by dragonwriter on Saturday January 06, 2018 @03:40PM (#16087326)
> The Supreme Court disagrees (Almeida-Sanchez v. U.S., U.S. v. Martinez-Fuente),

Martinez-Fuerte sharply limited Almeida-Sanchez: Almeida-Sanchez (1973), it's true, seemed to require warrantless border searches to be at the border, but Martinez-Fuerte (1976) allowed warrantless “border” searches at immigration checkpoints on public highways leading to it away from the Mexican border, even without any individualized basis for suspicion (much less probable cause) or when the decision to make stops was based entirely on the perceived ethnicity of drivers/passengers.

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by rrix2 on Saturday January 06, 2018 @01:03PM (#16086546)
At some point weren’t they also trying to argue that an international airport constituted an extended border for these purposes?
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by sandworm101 on Saturday January 06, 2018 @02:43PM (#16087041)
There isn't much need to argue. People traveling to/from international destinations can be easily searched under a number of different theories. Fly Vancouver>Vegas and you can be searched in Vegas despite having already been searched in Vancouver. Sometimes if they find something in Vancouver they will still put you on the plane as arresting you for a US crime in Vegas is much cheaper than in Vancouver (normally done for people with outstanding warrants).
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by slededit on Saturday January 06, 2018 @03:17PM (#16087213)
It's not just cheaper they are not allowed to arrest you in Canada. They can only deny entry or detain you until the Canadian authorities make the arrest.
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by sigmaprimus on Saturday January 06, 2018 @07:15PM (#16088267)
Actually in Vancouver, before you clear customs to get on your flight to the US, you enter a secure area where there is a sign that says welcome to the US of A, and you are in fact on US soil, just like an embassy, I'm pretty sure they could even fly you directly to a Bellingham jail and the Canadian government/RCMP couldn't do a thing about it once your cRoss that imimaginary line in the airport.
Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by slededit on Saturday January 06, 2018 @07:52PM (#16088403)
> Preclearance facilities exist because of agreements made between the U.S. federal government and the governments of the host countries. Travelers who have passed through the U.S. government checks, but whose flight or ship has not departed, remain in the legal jurisdiction of the host country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_border_precleara...

Re:Border Search of Electronic Devices – CBP Directive [pdf] by sigmaprimus on Saturday January 06, 2018 @08:00PM (#16088428)
I stand corrected, thanks for the info, hopefully I will never need use that info but nice to know still! +1