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Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by krapp on Friday January 05, 2018 @09:31AM (#16078756)
>I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special.

To simply state that humans are best adapted at certain traits is true, but humans have tended to think of themselves as "special" in that "we're not even animals, but beings made in the image of God and given divine right to conquer Nature and do with it what we will." That anthropocentric bias has led to a multitude of evils and scientific falsehoods, and that's what needs to be corrected. It's got nothing to do with misanthropy.

Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by stupidcar on Friday January 05, 2018 @11:01AM (#16079373)
But the opposite view could just as easily be used as a justification: I.e. "We're just animals, no different from any other. So anything we do is a part of nature, and we shouldn't second guess it, any more than any other animal would second guess its instincts."

I think we need to recognise that we are, at least, unique. And that we have a unique ability to affect the world, for good or ill, that sets us apart from other animals. That shouldn't be an excuse for hubris, but it should be reflected in how we view ourselves as a species.

Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by pygy_ on Friday January 05, 2018 @04:56PM (#16082062)
I mostly agree with you, but I would frame things differently.

We are animals, and everything we do is part of nature.

Nature isn't either inherently good or evil, and natural processes can be self-destructive.

And while we probably don't have qualitatively unique features we distinguish ourselves quantitatively on many axes, especially when it comes to storing and transmitting information and therefore influencing the rest of the world.

We may be more powerful than other species, but I'm afraid that on the knowledge/wisdom scale, we're only good enough to be dangerous. Seeing ourselves as a part of nature is necessary to limit the damage we do.

Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by anigbrowl on Friday January 05, 2018 @02:43PM (#16081053)
This argument is frequently deployed in numerous political contexts.
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by padobson on Friday January 05, 2018 @11:34AM (#16079605)
But the opposite view could just as easily be used as a justification

Agreed. Human animals will always find pseudo-rational reasons to do nefarious things.

Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by dasil003 on Friday January 05, 2018 @11:39AM (#16079635)
...and to define things as nefarious.
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by ieatfood on Friday January 05, 2018 @12:15PM (#16079889)
That's the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, isn't it?
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by JackFr on Friday January 05, 2018 @10:55AM (#16079336)
> That anthropocentric bias has led to a multitude of evils

How about we're the only species which we hold to a moral standard? Unless you're going to hold other species to that standard, you have to admit that we're special.

Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by QAPereo on Friday January 05, 2018 @02:55PM (#16081138)
Different != Special
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by oreo81 on Friday January 05, 2018 @05:51PM (#16082476)
If you don't consider humans special. What is your definition of special?
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by QAPereo on Friday January 05, 2018 @06:08PM (#16082590)
“Special” is a human concept which may not exist objectively, empirically. Distinct, unique, etc... are probably more honest, assuming that we don’t exist in a multiverse.
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by mike741 on Friday January 05, 2018 @07:07PM (#16082899)
isn't every concept you could name right now a human concept which may not exist objectively?
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by QAPereo on Friday January 05, 2018 @07:26PM (#16082985)
No, but then, I like physics so I’d start rattling off fundamentals like the hyperfine transitions of Hydrogen, the speed of light in vacuum, and the mass of the proton.
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by oreo81 on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:45PM (#16128222)
Still can't prove those absolutely objective. They just work out with our human conceived models of the "physical" universe.
Re:Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in North... by meri_dian on Friday January 05, 2018 @10:01AM (#16078948)
That's a fair point. Recognizing it as true shouldn't prevent us from recognizing how special we are, but you're right that we need to take a conscious approach to act as stewards of the world with our great power over it.