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Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by Cthulhu_ on Thursday January 04, 2018 @05:31AM (#16069248)
> And some people still aren’t sure if there is other life beyond Earth. :)

Until we actually observe it, no, we can't be sure; the probability of it existing is high simply due to the sheer amount of dice rolls there are in the universe, but the likelihood of us observing it is low. We already know there is and was no intelligent life in our solar system besides what's on Earth; there's still hopes of finding traces of microbial life on Mars and maybe that ice moon. But unless we get a signal from far away (what the SETI project has been scanning for for decades now), we'll not find evidence of alien life in this generation.

I also doubt humanity will find a way to travel fast enough to get to another solar system within a human lifespan. If we do, it'll probably involve bending the fabric of space-time and the Great Old Ones will return from Beyond the Observable Universe and will start eating us.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by Razengan on Thursday January 04, 2018 @05:38AM (#16069275)
> We already know there is and was no intelligent life in our solar system besides what's on Earth

We do not know all that was on Earth. We wouldn't have known about dinosaurs if we didn't chance upon their remains, and we only recently learned that they had feathers.

There is probably no way to know everything that has happened on this planet.

–

And that brings another facet of the point in the GP:

It's not just the distances between different planets that hinders life from meeting other life; even life on the very same planet is prevented by vast periods of time from ever encountering each other.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by hanbura on Thursday January 04, 2018 @05:47AM (#16069312)
>I also doubt humanity will find a way to travel fast enough to get to another solar system within a human lifespan.

The next solar system is only four lightyears away. Given the will to break nuclear test ban treaties we think we could develop nuclear pulse propulsion drives that achieve about 10% the speed of light. Even after accounting for acceleration and deceleration that gets us there in a human lifespan.

Granted, even at that speed generational ships make a lot of sense, and the selection of targets is still somewhat limited. But we can get to our neighbouring solar systems in "reasonable" time if we want to, with very doable development effort

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by kamaal on Thursday January 04, 2018 @07:25AM (#16069806)
A better strategy is to start mining asteroids. Sell mined stuff on earth to make enough money to build ships and lift necessary bootstrapping material out of the gravity well.

Also plenty of water out there and sunshine, burning hydrogen as fuel should be possible.

Now you will have enough machinery in space to mine building stuff and enough fuel. Gradually build permanent colonies in space.

It won't get all humans out of earth soon or ever. But it will put some humans permanently out of earth. Then keep building colonies as population in space grows.

Once you have done this you have done two things:

1. Eliminate a existential threat to humanity more or less permanently.

2. A slow but steadily growing population of humans in space.

Several decades/centuries after that you could have humans permanently living and working in space. From there its a matter of population growth, resources are a plenty and you have a universe for the taking.

Once you have a massive presence in space interstellar travel by definition is a question of acquiring real estate to keep up with population growth.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by ryandrake on Thursday January 04, 2018 @03:25PM (#16073743)
Even if there were bars of pure gold just sitting there on asteroids (or even floating in orbit) for us to take, it would cost more to get them than just mining them on Earth. People underestimate the stupendous economic cost of doing anything in space.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by kamaal on Friday January 05, 2018 @07:48AM (#16078239)
Oh well not gold.

But if you told them they could get unlimited clean fuel. There could be plenty of funding to extract water/ice from asteroids and send it back to earth.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by simonh on Thursday January 04, 2018 @08:20AM (#16070114)
>Even after accounting for acceleration and deceleration that gets us there in a human lifespan...

It gets _something_ there in a human lifespan. The only really well though out models for that are Daedalus and Icarus, and they would involve flybys only of probes the size of a hockey puck, or a washing machine at most. The cost of which would be civilisation impoverishing.

I think it's a very reasonable chance that humanity will never, as a functioning human populated civilization, ever spread beyond this solar system. Now 'never' is a pretty long term statement, but no matter how advanced our technology becomes, it's still likely to be constrained by the physics we know. It looks like spreading beyond this system would cost a very large fraction of all the resources we have in the system to start with, if it ever becomes practical at all.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by tzs on Thursday January 04, 2018 @11:26AM (#16071568)
If we drop the requirement that someone who is alive on the ship when it leaves Earth has to be alive when it arrives at the destination, it becomes much more feasible.

The basic idea is to combine two kinds of ship, neither of which we know how to make work individually, to form one that we can make work.

The first is the generation ship. The problems with those are that (1) we don't know for sure how to make a completely self-sustaining ecosystem that can keep a large enough population for viable colonization alive for the hundreds of generations it would take to reach their destination, and (2) such a population would require a freaking large ship, raising all kinds of challenges.

The second is the cryogenic suspension ship. The problem there is that we don't know how to unfreeze them without killing them.

Can we address the generation ship problems? Both problems stem from the need to have a large population. If we didn't need a large population, we could use some of the space that would have otherwise been consumed by colonist families to bring food to supplement the food produced by the ship's ecosystem, and eliminate the rest of the space they would have occupied.

Assume we can develop a food that can be stored indefinitely and that has the caloric density of rice (200 calories/cup). There are ~4 200 cups in a cubic meter, which gives 840 000 calories in a cubic meter. At 2000 calories per day, that's 420 days of food. A storage unit 10 meters on a side gives 1150 years worth of food for one person. And this is assuming that the person is getting all their calories out of storage, not depending on the ship's ecosystem.

If the storage food only needs to be a supplement designed to make up for things that we can't figure out how to get from the ship's ecosystem, then the numbers get even better.

This is where the cryogenic suspension comes in. We can't suspend and revive people--but we can do eggs and sperm indefinitely and revive them. Our cryonic generation ship will carry the colonists as frozen eggs and sperm. The only warm people on board would be the crew to operate the ship, and to raise the next generation crew.

Note that the next generation crew could come from the frozen eggs and sperm rather than from mating among the current generation crew, so we don't have to worry about a small crew becoming severely inbred during the trip.

If we can ever develop robots to the point that a robot can raise and educate a human baby without any human supervision, then we can leave out the crew and the food and the ecosystem, and just send robots plus frozen eggs and sperm.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by marcosdumay on Thursday January 04, 2018 @01:07PM (#16072512)
> ... or a washing machine at most.

The Orion project was designed for sending a city-sized space ship to Alpha Centaury in ~100 years.

The hard part seems to be how to build a city-sized ship, not how to move it.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by simonh on Friday January 05, 2018 @02:46PM (#16081073)
My apologies, I meant Daedalus. I can’t find any references to the Orion project you describe, though there have been several real spacecraft and related systems by that name.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by marcosdumay on Friday January 05, 2018 @07:25PM (#16082979)
You can start at Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propuls...

Basically nothing of it was actually built (nuclear propulsion wasn't an well accepted idea - for good reasons that won't matter as soon as we start building in space). There was just some very small scale prototypes.

In comparison, project Daedalus moved much faster.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by simonh on Saturday January 06, 2018 @08:57AM (#16085246)
Those were launch systems or in-system vehicles though, and much cruder and less efficient than Daedalus which was optimised for interstellar travel.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by ageofwant on Thursday January 04, 2018 @08:28AM (#16070164)
We already have that technology, more or less... A orion type drive is can be built using 1960's technology, the rest is just engineering, not new physics. A orion type drive can take you as close to c as you can afford. At 0.9999999c you can travel to A.Centauri in 1/2 day. Granted getting to 0.9999999 and back again is gonna take a fair pile of h-bombs.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by sudhirj on Thursday January 04, 2018 @08:58AM (#16070319)
Just to be clear, that would be 1/2 day for the people on the spacecraft. For the people you leave behind on earth you'd still be gone 4 years each way.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by rhombocombus on Thursday January 04, 2018 @11:11AM (#16071435)
And you still have to slow down from 0.9999999c
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by Pigo on Thursday January 04, 2018 @09:35AM (#16070559)
That was my reaction as well. If you're being scientific about it, how can you be sure at all? We have observed exactly zero instances of life beyond Earth. We're all free to believe whatever we like. I have beliefs of my own, but I don't expect anyone to share them unless they happen to believe it too. I just hope people who are so sure of extraterrestrial life can comes to terms with the fact that they are making a leap of faith.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by JoeAltmaier on Thursday January 04, 2018 @09:44AM (#16070605)
To nitpick: there is life on the International Space Station (beyond Earth). I don't mean 'in it'; I mean on it. Bacteria colonize some external surfaces.

So life can apparently adapt to extra-Earth locations. The leap of faith is then, that it hasn't left Earth, or that life on Earth didn't come from somewhere else to begin with? Because either scenario becomes plausible. It'd be strange to believe it didn't happen.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by Pigo on Thursday January 04, 2018 @09:53AM (#16070669)
So long as people acknowledge that what they think is a belief or hypothesis, I love to hear it. I guess everyone is forced to believe something un-provable about life. Looking at all of those galaxies forces you to come to terms with how little any of us really know for sure.
Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by falsprofet on Thursday January 04, 2018 @12:53PM (#16072372)
> I guess everyone is forced to believe something un-provable about life

> Looking at all of those galaxies forces you to come to terms with how little any of us really know for sure.

Only if you are forced to look at all that - in detail - and since that's not essential to a mundane life, there is no obligation to believe anything much.

I mean, I'm trying to make a point about believe in distinction to knowledge. There is yet a weaker modus operandi, which I'd call awareness for now, but that's a loaded term, too. If you hold two thoughts about contradicting possibilities in mind at the same time, that's not believe. Believe happens when externalities force a decision, also called leap of faith. Then you choose to believe in one possibility. Knowledge on the other hand means the possibility of round about 1.

Re:Observable Universe contains 10x more galaxies than previ... by SubiculumCode on Thursday January 04, 2018 @03:15PM (#16073671)
If we ever create life from nothing, identify conditions where that would happen,estimate number of locations Galaxy that would have planets with said condition...surely that would provide scientifically informed estimation of extraterrestrial life.