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Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by rayiner on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:41PM (#16063721)
So here in Maryland, the state and county governments are building a fiber network to plug gaps in the state's coverage (most populated areas of the state have competition between fiber and high-speed cable). It's a great idea. That said, requirements like these make me nervous:

> > The city intends to provide gigabit service for $70 a month or less and a cheaper Internet tier. Underground wiring for improved reliability and "universal coverage" are two of the key goals listed in the measure.

> Building a citywide network is a lengthy process—the city says its goal is to be done in "less than five years."

Contrast with how Stockholm built its network: https://www.stokab.se/Documents/Stockholms%20Stokab%20-%20A%.... A company was created by the city to own the dark fiber. The company was not given any build-out directive, and it took 18 years to cover 90% of the city, building out in a demand-driven fashion. The upside is that the approach is sustainable. Stockholm's utility has never received public money, isn't subsidized by a utility monopoly, and operates at a profit. It doesn't depend on changing political moods or public priorities.

Freedom from the municipal government is a big advantage. Look at what's happening right now with DC's and New York's subway systems. Once very good, they've been overcome by public-sector mismanagement, and are facing enormous maintenance and upgrade backlogs. The fact that this is run by the power company isn't all that comforting. Municipal governments have enormous influence over local power companies, and our electrical grid is in pretty poor shape too.

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by jandrese on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:09PM (#16065745)
My grandmother's rural Minnesota town laid fiber as part of the process of replacing the roads in the town. This greatly reduced the installation costs since they were able to basically sneak in halfway through the road repair to install the conduits.

It seemed pretty smart and it got her some cheap high speed Internet/TV/Phone through a third party ISP. The only weirdness is that the company doesn't appear to have a website, so she can order gigabit internet but has to call them up on the phone to get it.

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by adventured on Thursday January 04, 2018 @01:21AM (#16068439)
In theory the dig once law/s will make a big difference, along the lines of what you're talking about:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/natio...

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/otps/workplan.cfm

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by gowld on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:24PM (#16066469)
If NYC subway was privately owned by a (natural) monopoly, and profitable because the population critically depends on it and pays their fare, why would a private company upgrade it?

CA electricity was privatized, and we got Enron.

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by rayiner on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:09PM (#16066755)
Electricity was deregulated almost everywhere around the same time (not just in the U.S. but in Europe too), and situations like Enron were the exception. By contrast, decaying public infrastructure is the rule. The NYC subway (and Amtrak and Metro North) runs slower in many cases today than a century ago, because of deteriorating track, bridges, etc. See: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2009/05/stop_th.... There is a multi-hundred billion backlog in maintenance and upgrades of water and sewer pipes. Roads and bridges are crumbling.

When the public owns the infrastructure, there is enormous political pressure to price service too cheaply, which can work in the short term but has led to the infrastructure disaster we're seeing in the U.S. now: https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org.

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by patmorgan23 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:50PM (#16066983)
Plus it's much easier politicaly to get new infrastructure build than use those funds to maintain what you already have. Their are hardly any federal grants for mantaince but you want to build a 4 lane boulevard that's not going to be used much for the next 10 years here's 30 million.
Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by adventured on Thursday January 04, 2018 @01:27AM (#16068464)
> CA electricity was privatized, and we got Enron.

Texas electricity was privatized, and they got inexpensive, dependable electricity. It also hasn't held back renewable energy construction, Texas has chosen to utilize its immense wind potential for example.

California by comparison has electricity rates nearly twice that of Texas. For 2015, the Texas number was 8.64 cents per kilowatt hour (ranked 10th least expensive), while California was at 15.5 cents (ranked 9th most expensive).

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by kodablah on Thursday January 04, 2018 @01:43AM (#16068505)
Note, TX electricity is "deregulated" and the deregulation attempt learned a lot from the follies of CA's approach. They took the single company (TXU, so not really privatized per se) and broke it into the actual ones managing the infrastructure (e.g. Oncor) and limited TXUs ability to change pricing during an incubation period while other private companies sprang up.

So now TX electrical companies are just a bunch of middle men. They only compete on price and customer service, and price IIUC is basically a margin game of futures and size, not actual electricity innovation. By law, only one company can setup the lines, fix the lines, etc. Not sure how privatized that is if it's the state by another name.

I'd say the privatization or lack of between TX and CA has little to do with costs or quality. In this case, CA just had a bad company and TX a better one (or ones).

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by ams6110 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:20PM (#16064138)
> The company was not given any build-out directive, and it took 18 years to cover 90% of the city, building out in a demand-driven fashion.

A local telco here was wanting to take this approach to provide fiber internet, proposed when the city was wanting to start a municipal broadband project. Their plan was to build out high demand areas first, then expand from there to lower income/more sparse areas. They were raked over the coals as "picking and choosing" who would get internet service.

Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by shijie on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:56PM (#16063899)
Isn't the Stockholm fiber company you mentioned an inherent monopoly, then? Assuming that they're the ISP as well? Or can independent ISPs run their service on the fiber owned by this company?
Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by abbe_k on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:15PM (#16064068)
I'm pretty sure the fiber company only owns the fiber and takes a fee from ISPs for using it, they are not an ISP themselves. This means most customers can choose between a lot of different ISPs. At least it is that way in a lot of other places in Sweden.
Re:After beating cable lobby, Colorado city moves ahead with... by kalleboo on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:39PM (#16067551)
From the second paragraph of the linked PDF:

> Stokab was seen as a public infrastructure company by the City Council, much like a public organisation responsible for roads. As a consequence, Stokab was not allowed to sell active services, and was required to sell to any potential purchaser on a non-discriminatory basis