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Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by dleslie on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:15AM (#15994732)
Having been in a position where a consultant was foisted upon me by management, at several different companies, near as I can tell they are paid huge sums to restate what the team already knows and has been saying needs to be done. Only they provide it with an approach and language which management can understand.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by raldu on Saturday December 23, 2017 @12:33PM (#15995174)
In the case you mentioned, that's basically "credibility."

Although a lame story, Let's say you are responsible for initiating and managing a new software project in your company with complex bureaucracy and management. You have found that it is highly feasible to work with Agile methodology instead of Waterfall.

But Waterfall has been how the things had always been done, yet you know that the team is ready for Agile and project is an exact type of work that would benefit from some "lean" approaches. Worse still, management won't listen, also because "The Board" won't listen.

What you do is that you go to that well-known, highly-paid consultant, discuss the situation and he basically says, "OK, You are right. Also this and that."

Then in your presentation to the board while pitching Agile, you say, "Agile is the way to go. I asked Patrick Kalzumeus, and he said it was a good idea."

And that's it.

That "credibility" is one of many ways how a business consultant may "add value" to a highly organized company.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by drdeadringer on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:20PM (#15996071)
How do employees gain credibility that management and "The Board" will listen to, or is this question a dream?
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jwhitlark on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:55PM (#15996210)
I think it's more about getting a credible outside second opinion. for the same reasons you get a second opinion in medicine. It's less a judgement about a single source, than the requirement to have multiple sources.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by popinman322 on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:56PM (#15996211)
Probably by assessing and presenting the cost/benefit analysis to management in a reliable, high quality, easy-to-understand way.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by dleslie on Sunday December 24, 2017 @11:26AM (#16000113)
Sounds like a situation where there exists a fundamental absence of trust in the abilities of the team. That's... Probably not a good thing.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jghn on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:45AM (#15994894)
Beyond what taway20171214 said, don't discount the value of "language which management can understand". As I've moved up the ladder I've learned how extremely valuable this skill is and how woefully bad I am at it.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by ZenoArrow on Saturday December 23, 2017 @12:55PM (#15995303)
In my experience, "language that management can understand" just means focusing on answering the following questions:

1. What's the proposed issue/improvement?

2. What are the recommended options?

3. How much time will it take to get done?

In other words, all you really need to communicate is why we're doing it, and when it will be done.

In my experience, they're not interested in challenges faced in implementation. Keep things simple, and deliver on time, and you'll be speaking the "language which management can understand". That's basically all there is to it.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by twobyfour on Saturday December 23, 2017 @02:36PM (#15995841)
Depends on how high up the ladder the management is you're talking to.

Your line manager may be interested in a technical issue / improvement and understand its value without further explanation -- for instance, we're using a brute force algorithm that takes exponential time to foo the bar in the Baz module. It's got test coverage and the problem has a known logarithmic solution, so we could rewrite that in a week to be more efficient, and still be confident it's accurate.

Your department head may be willing to consider fixing a problem that affects efficiency or security or expected timelines -- we've identified the likely cause of at least one class of those outage events you've raised concerns about. If you want to fix it immediately, we would have to push back delivery of the Quux feature by a week while we rewrite a portion of the Baz application, but other risks are minimal.

The C-suite is mostly interested in problems/solutions framed as "how does this save us money" or "how does this make us money" -- we intend to invest a week in technical maintenance work that will allow us to save 25% of our monthly hosting costs by scaling back hardware requirements, and reduce the frequency of outage events that we have to pay out for on under our SLAs by 75%. That would cost $10,000 in developer time and delay our product schedule by a small though measurable amount, but I estimate it would save us an average of $48,000/year in costs.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jghn on Saturday December 23, 2017 @04:43PM (#15996412)
Exactly.

The other piece I've seen is being able to handle "I want Foo by X". It's easy to take on the engineer mindset and say "Sorry, that's not possible. The whizbangs alone would take more than that time!", but what do you do when they simply repeat "I want Foo by X"?. Picture the various Star Trek series where the engineer would say it'd take 5 hours to fix something and the captain retorts "you have 2". It's real.

The skill which really makes me jealous are the folks who are able to read between the lines and get at why they want Foo and why they need it by X. Instead of saying "Sorry, no can do!" they're able to offer Bar instead, and because they understand the deeper motivations of why Foo is being requested they understand why the manager is likely to accept Bar instead of Baz.

This is pretty similar to your C-suite descriptions, now that I reread it. But it's a different spin on it.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by twobyfour on Saturday December 23, 2017 @04:58PM (#15996474)
I agree - the why skill is crucial and difficult. I won't claim to be any good at it (it's actually one of the things my current manager excels at intuiting and I want to learn from him).

One tactic I can suggest (if your manager isn't a totally unreasonable cartoon tyrant) is to simply be explicit about it and ask "can you explain more about why you need Foo?" and then "what's driving the deadline of X?" Understanding the business case is generally necessary - though not always sufficient - for coming up with an alternative solution.

I suspect that part of the gap between people who are and are not good at this is how well apprised they are of the general conditions, initiatives in other departments/teams, and short-term strategic goals of the company.

Some of that is on the person who may or may not put in the effort to remain informed; and some of that is on the company's management that may do a good or a poor job of communicating those things proactively between departments/teams and from senior management down to junior management and line workers.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jghn on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:18PM (#15997916)
All true statements. I've been working at it, but then I watch my boss who is also excellent at it, and I realize I'm a novice still. In comparison I just get frustrated and wind up frustrating them as well.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by rootusrootus on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:57PM (#15996219)
I wish I could upvote your comment several times over, thank you! As a [very] new development manager who has been a software engineer for many years, it is this kind of detail aggregation that I find difficult to really understand automatically (as in, I can do it, but it's hard to translate engineering-level detail on the fly without sounding kind of dumb, IMO).
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by ZenoArrow on Saturday December 23, 2017 @06:30PM (#15996933)
> "Depends on how high up the ladder the management is you're talking to."

Depends on the individual, not on the job title. In my experience, managers of any level value information as simply put as possible. If they ask questions, then you answer them, but otherwise just tell them what they need to know.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by putnam on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:47AM (#15994909)
What do you do now?
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jghn on Saturday December 23, 2017 @04:38PM (#15996394)
Right now I'm in that limbo zone between coder who manages and manager who codes
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by taway20171214 on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:26AM (#15994801)
that's a management consultant, and the reason they're hired is to provide cover and credibility for both management and your technology team.

i.e., "the expensive consultant said it was okay, so don't fire anyone in management, or our technology team, if it goes sideways."

in other words, they're actually helping you do your job because they can compare your recommendation to other companies and teams in the industry and make sure everyone is doing things sanely. in your case, you were smart, and made the right recommendation, so they agreed with you. good job, you're competent, and aren't putting an established company into a risky situation like you would at a startup, which generally does not hire consultants, because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

you probably didn't see it that way, i'm guessing.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by ZenoArrow on Saturday December 23, 2017 @12:41PM (#15995228)
The issue you're overlooking is that these management consultants are being paid large fees for information that a company can get for free just by listening to their existing employees. However, that's not a slight on the management consultants themselves (nice work if you can get it), but is a slight on companies that don't trust that their employees can give them sound advice. Problems at the ground level are going to become apparent earliest to those working at that level, if you ignore that feedback you're potentially throwing away valuable information.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by amenod on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:47PM (#15996183)
As GP stated, this is not about (not) believing your employees, this is about risk management. In many cases it is justified - do you really want to run your company based on everything your employees come up with? Sometimes you need to check if their instincts are right, especially for decisions that have huge impact on your business. Price for consultants, while it might seem high to you, is actually pretty low compared to business values. Look at it as a kind of insurance.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by Kinrany on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:22PM (#15995443)
How do the companies know that they can trust their employees?
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by pjc50 on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:58PM (#15995635)
How do they know they can trust the consultant?

(More seriously, being unable to trust your employees to give useful feedback is a sign that your culture is a disaster)

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jwhitlark on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:57PM (#15996222)
They diff the output of the consultant against that of the employee. Trust, but verify.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by ZenoArrow on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:52PM (#15995603)
They must trust them enough to employ them. Even if they don't think any single person they employ has "all the answers", if you listen to feedback from your employees you can get a sense of trends. Furthermore, these observations should be something verifiable. You're asking for concrete feedback on issues, not vague comments about what's wrong.
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by putnam on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:47AM (#15994915)
Does something like that exist for software consulting?
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by jaggederest on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:42PM (#15995544)
I have done similar work.

I was hired to come in and assess the software that they were developing - they were working with some contractors, some vendors, and a smattering of other people, and wanted to know if their current method was working, how to address some concerns they had, and whether their current vendor was doing a good job.

I discussed it extensively with them, looked over the code and repositories, their current deployment, their backlog, looked at their priorities and basically told them "They seem like they are doing a good job, with the caveat that using contractors and vendors means you will never develop those skills in house, so I would hire at least one competent programmer internally to work with the vendors/contractors you hire, in order to develop that expertise, if you intend to use custom software as a core part of your business on a continuing basis".

This was conveyed via a written report with citations and via a meeting with the C-level executives of the company.

For this review and strategic suggestions they paid me about $1200 for an afternoon's work. That doesn't count time that went into acquiring the gig, scheduling, following up, or billing, just billable hours.

Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by other_herbert on Saturday December 23, 2017 @07:44PM (#15997221)
It's the sanity check that some managers/ higher up people want... Expert = someone who doesn't work here (from a non dev upper management perspective)
Re:How I went from programming to consulting (2012) by dejv on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:41PM (#15995542)
Yes, I am not sure how common are those gigs, but I did quite a few projects in development agency. It was usually in situations when projects went bad, I had to examine code structure and timelines to see why it went this way.