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Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by jncraton on Friday December 15, 2017 @05:10PM (#15935663)
Bitcoin is the long term store of value for the cryptocurrency ecosystem. It's poor for small transactions, but works well for storing large amounts of value as it is significantly more secure in terms of PoW than anything else out there.

The small transaction issue may be overcome by something like the Lightning Network, but in the short term, you can just use other cryptocurrencies with lower fees or other features that are important to you.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by lawn on Friday December 15, 2017 @05:53PM (#15935928)
> It's poor for small transactions, but works well for storing large amounts of value as it is significantly more secure in terms of PoW than anything else out there.

This is only true as long as Bitcoin is worth more. But with it becoming more unusable, while other coins are growing in popularity, this will change and Bitcoin won't have any use case left.

> The small transaction issue may be overcome by something like the Lightning Network, but in the short term, you can just use other cryptocurrencies with lower fees or other features that are important to you.

The Lightning Network has too many problems to solve Bitcoin's scaling issues by itself. Including:

1. No decentralized routing 2. Hubs need to bind up large amount of capital 3. Nodes need to constantly be online and monitor the state to prevent fraud 4. It is heavily dependent on the network effect: for it to be useful the ones you want to transact with needs to be there. Kind of a chicken and egg problem. And why use it as long as other cryptocurrencies fulfill the users need, with a better user experience than LN would provide as well. 5. Settlements do not work reliably with full blocks (or they need to pay huge premiums)

LN might have a usecase for providing microtransactions, such as paying for every X second of a video or similar, but it will not solve Bitcoin's scaling problems.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by jncraton on Saturday December 16, 2017 @08:09AM (#15939376)
I agree with most of what you said, but I would add that part of the value of Bitcoin vs other cryptocurrencies comes from its incredibly high PoW difficulty. The Bitcoin network currently completes 14 quintillion sha256 hashes every second. A similar amount of computing power would need to be controlled by a successful attacker.

I understand that miners can choose to leave Bitcoin, and this is largely dependent on price, but historically, Bitcoin provides the most security, so it is the safest crypto for storing a large amount of value.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by lawn on Saturday December 16, 2017 @09:13AM (#15939603)
Yes, that's exactly what I mean with it depends on the price. Historically most miners switched to Bitcoin Cash whenever it was more profitable to mine. With the new EDA the miner ratio is expected to follow the price ratio. So if Bitcoin Cash ever were to have a higher price than Bitcoin they would get the most miners. In the long run this would make Bitcoin Cash the chain with the most security.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by thevardanian on Friday December 15, 2017 @05:44PM (#15935885)
The thing I don't understand, and am concerned about the most is that cryptocurrencies rely on public ledgers, and therefore not private. That is all monetary transactions are in essence public record, which is very odd to me, and really doesn't sit well.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by lawn on Friday December 15, 2017 @06:02PM (#15936009)
Exactly.

Monero is the only real cryptocurrency because it does not have a public ledger. Monero is fungible, meaning you cannot tell two coins apart, which is an essential property of money.

This is a very real issue most people into Bitcoin does not seem to care about. Anyone you transact with can gain insight into your personal finances which at best informs your friends of how rich/poor you are and at worst making you a robbery target.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by mrb on Saturday December 16, 2017 @01:23AM (#15938110)
Zcash and DASH implement private transactions too. As good as, if not better than, Monero.
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Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by dylz on Friday December 15, 2017 @07:10PM (#15936433)
Why do you keep using the large phrase "chinese government controlled crypto bcash" instead of just calling it bcash?

Sincerely, someone that isn't involved in all of this.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by CryptoPunk on Friday December 15, 2017 @07:26PM (#15936509)
It's not even called bcash. It's called Bitcoin Cash. The 1 MB maximalists call it bcash because they don't want it to carry Bitcoin's legacy in the public mind.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by ryebit on Friday December 15, 2017 @08:37PM (#15936822)
Labelling everyone who does that "1 MB maximalists" is a little extreme, and is probably why people are irritated with BCH's marketing tactics.

To view your statement in a different light.. maybe people don't care for it trying to succeed based on another coin's name, rather than trying to stand on it's own merits. Bitcoin Gold (for all it's problems) doesn't try to insist it's the real Bitcoin. And 90% of the coins out there were confident enough in their tech to not prefix "Bitcoin" to their name.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by CryptoPunk on Friday December 15, 2017 @10:23PM (#15937250)
Bitcoin Cash was a hard fork of Bitcoin to implement Bitcoin's original scaling plan, and original vision to be a "peer-to-peer electronic cash", and includes all account balances from before the hard fork.

You may disagree that it's the real Bitcoin, but it's undoubtedly open to interpretation, and some of its advocates calling it that doesn't justify mislabeling it as bcash.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by Frogolocalypse on Friday December 15, 2017 @11:06PM (#15937564)
> and original vision

Where in the original white-paper is the emergency difficulty adjustment?

https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoin-cash-difficulty-adjust...

> peer-to-peer

If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by pmorici on Saturday December 16, 2017 @03:44AM (#15938531)
It currently costs less to run a node per month than it does to do three transactions on the blockchain in the same period. Why would anyone care to run a node if the transactions aren't affordable.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by Frogolocalypse on Saturday December 16, 2017 @04:12AM (#15938608)
If the blocksize was increased to double its current resource requirements, where i live in Australia, it would be impossible to run a node at any price.

And because the people who run nodes know this, they reject your proposals that reduce bitcoin network security.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by pmorici on Saturday December 16, 2017 @04:28AM (#15938657)
You don't need to run a node unless you are a miner you should be using an SPV wallet. Chances are you already do.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by CryptoPunk on Friday December 15, 2017 @11:16PM (#15937623)
The specifics of the difficulty adjustment algorithm are not critical to the original vision, but way to deflect (from the original scaling plan) to a different point.

>>If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer.

We had this discussion before:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15883911

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Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by nicky0 on Saturday December 16, 2017 @03:47AM (#15938539)
Actually the white paper does not specify the details of the algorithm anyway.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by warbiscuit on Friday December 15, 2017 @11:17PM (#15937630)
> You may disagree that it's the real Bitcoin, but it's undoubtedly open to interpretation

It really isn't open to interpretation. And that is why people have been disparagingly calling it a different name; because the insistence that it's "the real Bitcoin" lessens it's credibility.

Why is Bitcoin Gold not the real Bitcoin? It's got a more ASIC-resistant proof of work, that's surely also in line with Satoshi's original vision? IMO, that's a much better reason, if adherence to the original whitepaper is what we're measuring by, since it reduces mining centralization. (Heck, if BCH adopted an ASCI-resistant PoW, I'll view in a new light!).

But you have to let things evolve. Software is rarely perfect out of the gate. Massive p2p software in particular is such a very new thing, there's going to be all kinds of bugs and dead ends. There may be ways to optimize and polish those dead ends to make them the best they can be, but it won't change the fundamentals of them.

And there's tons of levers and settings inside bitcoin. I don't think they're all set right (BCH's new difficulty algorithm seems like an interesting idea, in fact). But one thing that seems to be clear across the biggest coins... a worldwide distributed blockchain ledger just takes too darn long to handle p2p payments worldwide at a reasonable KiB/s. Even ETH, as fast as it is, was brought down by cryptokitties.

The coin that succeeds is going to have to solve that in some fashion. And running all the world's transactions through every node, upping the blocksize as needed, isn't going to solve the problem.

Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by Frogolocalypse on Friday December 15, 2017 @07:24PM (#15936496)
Because bcash is overwhelmingly run by bitmain, a chinese company, at every point in its service delivery. The miners, the nodes, and now the payment processor are all one chinese company. It is also not surprising that they have specifically disabled the privacy improvement of segwit in their altcoin. So no atomic cross-chain swaps are possible either. It is a walled garden where they control all of the access.
Re:BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Sta... by betoharres on Friday December 15, 2017 @05:44PM (#15935888)
Bitcoin cash sounds good then