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Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by Sharlin on Sunday December 10, 2017 @05:54AM (#15890870)
> I mean, I know the answer is "government" and government making them a monopoly, but still. WTF.

Eh, telco infrastructure is a natural monopoly. No government needed for that.

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by vidarh on Sunday December 10, 2017 @08:34AM (#15891298)
No, but government could easily have opted for a regulatory regime that prevented it from being a problem, instead of allowing them to continue milking their situation.

The EU member states implementation of deregulation of the telecoms sector is far from perfect, but most of them have ended with something that works reasonably well.

E.g. in the UK, while the cable operator (there's only one of note left standing) has mostly escaped regulation, but BT had it's last-mile infrastructure subjected to heavy regulation to the point where it's been split out into its own company (OpenReach) that maintains the network and is legally obliged to resell access to anyone at the same terms.

You can even get the prices to terminate an IP connection with a subscriber on their website.

ISPs can put equipment in the BT exchanges and get a raw connection, or can pay for "backhaul" to a set of central locations.

I know the US also has a form of local-loop unbundling, but it's clearly not working very well given the level of complaints people have about these services in the US. Possibly because of the price-setting mechanism?

As a result there's a lot of competition in the ISP space in the UK (as there is elsewhere in the EU).

(Where it's not perfect is that the way the regulations have been set up gives too few incentives for BT to invest and innovate in the last mile network and is often accused of milking OpenReach for profit; two ways of improving on that would be to restrict how much profit they could take out as dividends to a proportion of how much they reinvest in network improvements and/or split maintenance/operation into regional franchises and force companies like OpenReach to bid for it on a franchise basis; though the latter is hard to get the evaluation-criteria right for)

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by tolien on Sunday December 10, 2017 @10:30AM (#15891797)
> ISPs can put equipment in the BT exchanges and get a raw connection, or can pay for "backhaul" to a set of central locations.

It's worth noting this involves two different layers of regulatory separation.

Most ISPs don't run their own LLU operation. They buy access from one of BT Wholesale or TalkTalk Wholesale (who are technically LLUers and both, in turn, use the last-mile network run by Openreach). As you say, the prices which both of the BT Group companies are allowed to charge are regulated and published and companies can "innovate" at quality of service or features offered.

The relevant part here is that the US has never AFAIK had the same wholesale access model. With that, an upstart ISP could have the same coverage as Verizon/Comcast/etc but have the option of not doing these scummy things and/or being as network-neutral as they pleased, within the limits of their business model, without having to spend boatloads of money building a network to access those customers. LLU, on the other hand, requires way more investment so it's not surprising that it never really took off in the US where DSL always seemed like the poor relation compared to the cable networks.

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by scottmf on Sunday December 10, 2017 @10:33AM (#15891815)
There’s a lot to dislike about the UK government, but the way they regulated the ISP market is perfect. We have one of the most competitive ISP markets in the world.

In my time in the US several years ago I was horrified at the cost and quality of internet (and mobile) service compared to the UK.

Any strong libertarian ideals I once had were crushed by the reality of things like this. (Healthcare too but that’s another discussion).

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by vidarh on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:30AM (#15914800)
I don't really think it's perfect - it lets BT milk OpenReach rather than reinvest more. But it's decent.

It's worth noting, though, that this is the EU's doing, through the Telecoms Directive, not something the UK government did of its own accord.

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by benbenolson on Sunday December 10, 2017 @10:55AM (#15891920)
No, it's not a "natural monopoly." The primary issue right now is getting the legal right to use this infrastructure, which is protected by local city and county governments. Most of these local governments simply choose to not allow other companies to move in.

https://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-ju...

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/04/12/0345217/tennessee-c...

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by Hendrikto on Sunday December 10, 2017 @05:58AM (#15890888)
Bs. Heard about the 1996 telecommunicatins act? The government payed for their monopoly, and now it lets them keep it and not share it.
Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by pas on Sunday December 10, 2017 @07:13AM (#15891090)
They have to share the last mile infrastructure with new entrants. And the FCC can preempt local and state level requirements to help new entrants.

The current problems are that a) since Trump the FCC is shit, b) local municipalities "vowing" to not enter the market (and others have no incentive).

See these for b: - https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/voters-reject-ca... - https://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-ju...

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by djrogers on Sunday December 10, 2017 @11:01AM (#15891957)
> The current problems are that a) since Trump the FCC is $#\¥

Oh please, he’s been in office less than a year - none of this amazing ‘sharing’ happened under the previous administration either. It’s totally understandable to have (in my case many) disagreements with the Presidents and their policies, but this knee-jerk habit of blaming whoever is currently in office for everything because he’s not on our team is counterproductive.

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by charcoal23 on Sunday December 10, 2017 @03:06PM (#15893226)
The FCC under Trump has been very friendly to the large enterprises at the expense of small businesses and customers. Trump himself has approved many regulatory changes which are hostile to small businesses, employees and customers across many different industries.

It's safe to say at this point that we have a clear idea of what decisions Trump and his FCC will make in the future, and that there would little to no hope for decisions which will increase competition. A year is plenty of time for assessing the character of an adminstration, and Trump's has been remarkably consistent in this regard.

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by pas on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:19AM (#15895958)
> blaming ... for everything

Not for everything.

I blamed O'dog for the fucking shady counterproductive NSA practices that he allowed to continue.

The Obama DoJ took a dump regularly on whistleblowers.

And the infamous CIA kill-by-drone program.

And those are just the obvious big ticket items.

Re:Comcast is injecting 400+ lines of JavaScript into web pages by scottmf on Sunday December 10, 2017 @10:45AM (#15891880)
Is that when they subsidized the ISPs with billions to build out infrastructure, which they never did?

The problem with anti-government rhetoric in the US is it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. Government is not inherently as incompetent and weak as yours often is.

There is no reason why a regulatory solution cannot work in the US when they work well in many other countries of greatly varying size and population density.

If your government fails you, that is not a failure of government: it is a failure of your government.