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Re:****** No Bootcamp Applicants ****** by ajross on Saturday December 02, 2017 @04:53PM (#15834328)
> the comparison to race or gender issues in the beginning is in extremely bad taste

Coding "bootcamps" have been broadly embraced by people trying to get programming (about as gender-selected a profession as there is) opened up to people from broader backgrounds. Obviously there are white dudes that come out of these programs too, but... no, it's not too much a stretch to imagine someone talk about "bootcamp applicants" as shorthand for post-college women looking for a change of career.

Likewise, sure, it's possible that someone is just using "bootcamp" as shorthand for "unqualified" and trying to sincerely convey the deep background required of the position. But it's not in "bad taste" to imagine something a little less wholesome either. Which is to say (pause while people get out their SJW hatchets): check your privilege a bit. It's easy for people like us who followed the rules and have the right chromosomes to imagine that injustice doesn't exist. Those closer to the problem have a different perspective.

Re:****** No Bootcamp Applicants ****** by Barrin92 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:13PM (#15834461)
I do absolutely believe that injustice exists. I've seen women with extensive academic and job backgrounds be treated like amateurs by guys. That is absolutely real and needs to be combated.

But don't mix those things up when it comes to the bootcamp issue. I would rather state it the other way around. Women can complete and do deserve to get a full education. We do not need to funnel them through rushed education systems, or be afraid to evaluate candidates candidly. It is not productive to keep bad and often expensive programs alive that market themselves to people looking for a career jump.

Re:****** No Bootcamp Applicants ****** by ajross on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:45PM (#15834652)
> Women can complete and do deserve to get a full education. We do not need to funnel them through rushed education systems

To paraphrase: "Women who didn't get a CS degree in their 20's can shove off, they're beyond hope and shouldn't try to break into a profession where they aren't qualified"

One man's (heh) objective and rational criterion is another's instrument of oppression.

All we hippies want you to do is just evaluate candidates on their own merits and not use shorthand like "no bootcamp applicants!" which can be easily construed as discriminatory. And it wouldn't hurt if you could try to see things from other people's perspective too, but that's optional.

Re:****** No Bootcamp Applicants ****** by Barrin92 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:50PM (#15834670)
that's not what I said at all. All I want to avoid is that women pick up bootcamp educations in the hope to get a job, fall short in interviews based on merit, and then end up stigmatized as second grade candidates. Which can easily happen if only certain demographics pick up a specific education path, that can't objectively compete with the expectations these people face in their jobs.

Don't sacrifice the quality of education just to pursue an egalitarian end, it will backfire and get you the exact opposite result of what you want.

Re:****** No Bootcamp Applicants ****** by ajross on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:55PM (#15834701)
> that's not what I said at all

Whoosh, as it were. The point is that when you say that, it is what some other people hear. And that forcing disadvantaged demographics to read your mind to tell whether you're simply naive or a sexist jerk is hurting all of us. There are principles at work here beyond "sacrificing the quality of education".

The bottom line is that you aren't being nearly as welcoming as you think you are.

Re:****** No Bootcamp Applicants ****** by Barrin92 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:17PM (#15834841)
sorry but my job when interviewing someone isn't to be welcoming. My job is to be fair, assess the person's qualification and experience because businesses work with restricted time and information.

The interviewer will never know your entire backstory and needs to make a decision relatively quickly. If I would start to be overly empathetic or sensible, I would arguably start making biased and bad decisions based on personal gut feelings. That's what I need to avoid, not encourage.