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Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by NelsonMinar on Friday December 01, 2017 @05:38PM (#15828359)
It never fucking ends with this company, does it?
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by j4ship on Friday December 01, 2017 @06:28PM (#15828702)
it ends every time i get out of the car and give my driver 5 stars. And then it begins again with me being picked up damn near any where i want to at any time in the bay area.

The scandals are for the company , the employees , and the gov to figure out.

As a user (and Im also guessing for the drivers) its one of the best companies out there. Reliable , efficient, high quality.

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by NelsonMinar on Friday December 01, 2017 @06:41PM (#15828806)
Lyft and Flywheel provide this service in the Bay Area too. As a bonus, they aren't infected with a rotten core culture.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by KKKKkkkk1 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:38AM (#15830378)
When I was going from South Bay to SFO two weeks ago, Uber quoted me $40, while Lyft $300. So not quite.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by Bahamut on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:32AM (#15830760)
Way to cherry pick. Usually it’s under $60 from the South Bay to SFO on either service, and I flew about 40 times last year.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by eropple on Friday December 01, 2017 @10:55PM (#15830045)
> The scandals are for the company , the employees , and the gov to figure out.

Not too big on the responsibility of ethical consumption, huh?

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by sametmax on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:13AM (#15830874)
I understand the sentiment.

However, given the amount of animal product we consume, the gaz we use, the slaves that make our stuff, the resources we steal from other countries, the wrappers and electronic we make and trash i would not be judgmental about it.

Unless you are a monk, you are probably making terrible consummer choice every fay.

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by eropple on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:16AM (#15830878)
Totally. We all unquestionably are. But there is a moral difference between doing so out of ignorance or out of personal necessity (you gotta eat) and doing so out of willful ignorance or out of personal luxury.

I did not respond to that post because he uses Uber. Hell, I live somewhere where I can't get a cab, the train doesn't go where I need to go, and Lyft just literally doesn't have cars here (it's weird and I haven't investigated it, but there are times where I just don't get pickups near my house, though they pop up half a mile away if I walk). I use Uber in those situations, and I don't feel bad about it.

I responded to his post because, yanno, certain folks love the term "virtue signaling"--what is it when you sign up for a website just to brag about how little you care about the people around you?

That deserves a little criticism, I think.

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by sametmax on Saturday December 02, 2017 @09:23AM (#15831929)
Fair point. Balanced answer. Can't argue.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by crpatino on Friday December 01, 2017 @08:15PM (#15829436)
You assume too much. Uber might be good for the customer, but it is a total jerk to the driver.

Last scandal at my hometown, that is unlikely to reach the English speaking world, is as follows.

Our airport, which lays on federal grounds, grants a monopoly of transportation services to certain well established company. Not even city taxis are allowed in (they can drop passangers, but cannot pick up anyone else while they are on premises). Uber attitude towards this situation is the standard one, basically an extended middle finger to every law, institution or authority of the land.

The problem is that if airport security catches an unofficial taxi on premises, they call federal police, the car is taken to a seized and the driver cannot recover until he's paid a very considerable fine (think several months of blue collar wages). Uber strategy to deal with that is to swarm security, so they always catch someone, but the process to deal with the offender is very time consuming and all other Uber cars are free to do business while the guards are preocupied.

Uber will punish any driver that refuses to take airport calls with bad karma, and will "gratiuouly" pay for your fine... once (if you get caught twice, it is on you), but they will not pay you any wages while your car is locked in federal grounds (a time that is measured in weeks, not days). They will also not pay for any damages to the car itself, which unfortunatelly is a rampant problem in this country when vehicles end up under the custody of the government.

So, be very glad to have a car and a chauffeur at your fingertips beck and call, but please do not assume the driver is enjoying it as much as you do.

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by will4274 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:13PM (#15833446)
I always felt that $70 was an absurd price for the $10 worth of gas and 30 minutes to get home from the airport that taxis used to charge before Uber. I believe that Uber creates a more efficient allocation of drivers permitting drivers to make more transactions in a work day. Why should I be concerned that the taxi driver is making too little money when he wasn't concerned about charging me too much money before? We are both engaging in the transaction consensually and we are both able minded adults - why shouldn't that be the end of it as far as ethics go?
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by chairmanwow on Saturday December 02, 2017 @10:34AM (#15832257)
While this is unfair of Uber, this is a pretty insane situation. They impound your car for weeks for providing a service consensually? I think that's the real issue here.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by CodeWriter23 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:01PM (#15833382)
Trust me, this story plays out in most US Cities. Google Los Angeles Bandit Cab Enforcemt to find out about Uber and Lyft drivers getting their cars impounded with steep fines and months-long impounds. And then dig around uberpeople.net to see it happening in other cities.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by x0x0 on Friday December 01, 2017 @09:22PM (#15829714)
It seems likely kalanick encouraged this stuff. Combine that with weak controls and who knows what upper middle management has dreamed up across the company. I'm sure the CEO is grilling people about all the shit they're doing that will ruin his day when a newspaper reports on it as we speak...
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by enraged_camel on Friday December 01, 2017 @05:52PM (#15828466)
It will end when they run of money.

Which is too bad. They make me wish there was such a thing as corporate death penalty. Corporations are people after all, aren't they?

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by dmix on Friday December 01, 2017 @05:58PM (#15828521)
> Corporations are people after all, aren't they?

This was an effort to protect the economy from being ground to a halt by destructive litigious action and make courts more efficient. Not to increase liability and accountability within the corporation. Which is why nearly every western country has done the same... it wasn't a conspiracy to protect wealthy people from being punished.

Like many regulations that fail to affect idealistic change, it was done with good intentions and there hasn't been a strong enough support for an alternative to solve this issue... or, less likely, maybe no rational alternatives really do exist.

The simple fact is shit rolls down hill in all big organizations and I'm not convinced it won't happen if corporations weren't singular legal entities. Top tier executives have a way of protecting themselves, while the lower staff tend not to have such protections.

Removing this 'corporations = people' legal structure would incentivize internal deflection to lower levels as a legal strategy instead of the company uniformly fighting back against allegations - making it risky to be a low-level manager and highly disincentivizing employees from taking any real responsibility that would involve legal exposure (aka a huge percentage of management and entrepreneurial jobs).

Ultimately, the tough reality is that it might actually make sense to treat the company as a singular whole, as potentially there are hundreds of people involved in any major corporate incident. Which would be a nightmare in the bureaucratic mess that is the modern justice system.

That said, I'm not 100% convinced that courts can't use common sense to figure out direct liability and involvement within the company, at an individual level. But common sense has never been something the courts or government policy have been known for, at least in the last half-century. The modern justice system has entirely been modeled around the lowest common denominator. Which is very apparent if you've ever tried to challenge something as simple as a traffic ticket in court.

Given that legal/regulatory environment which it currently exists within I could see such a change being abused and being massively inefficient. Especially considering how difficult it is to prove a single persons involvement in a normal crime, let alone trying to sue a company then figuring out 100 individuals culpability...

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by forapurpose on Friday December 01, 2017 @08:42PM (#15829561)
> it was done with good intentions

How can anyone know the motivations of the Justices?

> Like many regulations

Isn't it a court decision, not a regulation? Are we all talking about Citizens United?

> This was an effort to protect the economy from being ground to a halt by destructive litigious action and make courts more efficient.

Is there evidence that such a thing was at risk of happening? I know industry advocates commonly make the claim, but I haven't seen evidence.

IIRC, the court decision was to enable corporations to make political contributions based on their free speech rights as 'people'. How does that serve the purposes quoted above?

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by slavik81 on Friday December 01, 2017 @09:36PM (#15829773)
> Isn't it a court decision, not a regulation? Are we all talking about Citizens United?

No. He's probably talking about the establishment of corporations by the Joint Stock Companies Act of 1844[1], or its American equivalent.

Citizens United did not invent corporate personhood. That dates back to when the concept of a corporation was first established.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Stock_Companies_Act_1844

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by evgen on Saturday December 02, 2017 @04:28AM (#15831147)
And the prior comment references Santa Clara vs Southern Pacific Railway, in which a note on the decisions (not even in the decision itself) stated that corporations were persons for purposes of the 14th amendment. It does not date back to the Joint Stock Companies act but comes from a little later in the post-civil war cases.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by 1_2__4 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @10:55AM (#15832381)
I like how you carefully catalog the theoretical damage a recent court precedent going the other way would have inflicted, and just as carefully ignore the actual fallout we’ve already seen from it.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by focusgroup0 on Friday December 01, 2017 @07:13PM (#15829026)
Thanks for this, feel like there is too much FUD out there on Citizens United.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by enraged_camel on Friday December 01, 2017 @06:07PM (#15828574)
>>it wasn't some conspiracy to protect wealthy people from ever getting punished.

That has been the result, however.

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by dmix on Friday December 01, 2017 @06:22PM (#15828682)
Regardless, my point is that it's entirely possible that without this current legal structure the alternatives will only increase low-level employees legal exposure, while having a marginal impact on the behaviour of wealthy top level executives (which is what people really care about, isn't it?), and while simultaneously flooding the courts with massive inefficient cases, consuming finite resources which could be better spent elsewhere.

Just because you can point out the current system's flaws doesn't automatically mean a comparable better one exists.

Plenty of systems in our economy and legal system are a matter of lesser-of-evils. It's easy to complain but unless you can propose a better alternative, an alternative that won't end up being worse for the poor/middle class average person, then you aren't really helping the situation.

This disconnect from the on-the-ground reality is one of the big reasons I don't support many of these populist activist causes... and yes I've seen "The Corporation" film many times.

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by enraged_camel on Friday December 01, 2017 @06:50PM (#15828869)
>>Just because you can point out the current system's flaws doesn't automatically mean a comparable better one exists.

The flip side of the coin is we should never stop looking for improvements. IMO if executives were held personally liable for gross negligence, for instance, they would suddenly become more interested in things like security best practices (referring to the recent Equifax disaster).

Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by philipov on Friday December 01, 2017 @05:59PM (#15828530)
That's some nice snark, but it is self-defeating: we should not be having the death penalty for people, because of its history of abuse against minorities, and the poor standards of evidence. A death penalty on powerful corporations makes more sense because these entities have the means to defend themselves. It is because they are not people that a death penalty is allowable.
Re:Three Uber security managers resign after CEO criticizes ... by fjsolwmv on Saturday December 02, 2017 @08:31PM (#15835486)
Corporations are immortal, which violates the spirit of the original notion and definition of corporations as organizations with a limitied specific charter. Corporations need mortality.