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Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by jacquesm on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:23PM (#1581862)
If you really want to help your brother I doubt you can do it by remote control.

Have you considered that he's drinking because it brings out the brother in you?

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by dotBen on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:56PM (#1581981)
Have you considered that he's drinking because it brings out the brother in you?

So you are essentially shouldering some/all of the responsibility for the brother's alcoholism upon the OP. That's a big burden to carry, and potentially dangerous + damaging if it is not true.

You're taking a wild guess with that comment, you have no idea, and (maybe unintentionally) your sentence doesn't ask if that could be the answer - you state it as the case (the words 'if' or 'maybe' would have been better here).

When people are looking for answers they can read into the linguistics of things very carefully. What you wrote was very powerful and without any facts or evidence to back it up.

I would be sad if the OP, who already clearly feels worried about the situation, started taking responsibility for this mess that actually wasn't his doing or responsibility.

I'd be even more sad if he gave up his startup and moved home when it turns out none of the trigger factors for the brothers alcoholism have anything to do with him. Many people just self-destruct and even if the alcoholic brother is missing his distant brother that doesn't make it wrong for distant brother to live abroad.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by jacquesm on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:59PM (#1581997)
> So you are essentially shouldering some/all of the responsibility for the brother's alcoholism upon the OP. That's a big burden to carry, and potentially dangerous + damaging if it is not true.

No, I'm asking if he thinks that may be the case.

People do the weirdest things to get the attention of others, including getting in to trouble.

> I would be sad if the OP gave up his startup and moved home for this. Many people just self-destruct and even if the alcoholic brother is missing his distant brother that doesn't make it wrong for distant brother to live abroad.

It's not your life, it's his so there is noting for you to be sad about, whichever decision he makes, and whatever the outcome.

As for the linguistics, I'm not an English native speaker/writer but I though that it was pretty clear that I did not intend to suggest that he is at fault for his brothers drinking, that's a ridiculous suggestion to begin with. Everybody is responsible for their own lives.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by troubledbrother on Friday August 06, 2010 @03:06PM (#1582018)
Thanks for your concern. jacquesm's comment did make me pause and think, but I tend to not get carried away when thinking about taking responsibility. I have seen my dad take responsibility for a lot of his relatives' shortcomings all his life; all parties involved end up being miserable. So that history makes me a bit wary of compromising on my life for someone else.

But, I really do want to help my brother, which may involve some compromises.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by troubledbrother on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:27PM (#1581877)
I can try and visit him more often, but I've just started a startup. Perhaps it's time to revise my priorities.

Have you considered that he's drinking because it brings out the brother in you?

I've never looked at it that way, but if that's the case, me being near him may help.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by jacquesm on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:39PM (#1581919)
In the end nobody can change a life except the person whose life it is, but if it were my brother I'd be right there beside him on the off-chance that it would help.

Fortunately my brother is not in to stuff like that.

It's really tough, and one of those things that you have to deal with as an emigrant that is not in the playbook.

Do you have more brothers? If you do can they be of assistance somehow? Does your brother look up to you, see you as a role model? Does he have good friends?

It's tough. My dad was an all-out alcoholic, he drank more than anybody that I've ever seen, before or after, and on top of that he was violent when drunk. It gave me a fantastic warning about what kind of an effect alcohol can have on people and as a result I never drank a drop.

So I really feel for you, but if it turns out that you can't make a difference don't be too hard on yourself.

good luck!

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by troubledbrother on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:48PM (#1581949)
Do you have more brothers? If you do can they be of assistance somehow? Does your brother look up to you, see you as a role model? Does he have good friends?

I don't have more brothers, but there are a few family members around my brother to help and support him. However, the generation gap is a problem. He does relate best to me and look up to me as a bit of a role model. He doesn't really have any good friends, not any that he hangs out with.

Sorry to hear about your dad and glad that you took a positive lesson from his life.

Thanks for your help.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by gojomo on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:53PM (#1581964)
At some point, rushing to "be right there beside him on the off-chance that it would help" may be more hurtful than helpful. As you noted in your first comment, maybe "he's drinking because it brings out the brother in you".

The 12-step world has all sorts of theories about these behaviors, under the titles "codependency" or "enabling" or "rescuing" or "detachment". I can't say for sure whether they're right but someone struggling with these issues, like the OP, may want to familiarize themselves with that literature. A reasonably-sized bookstore will have a large section of books about dealing with alcoholism, as a drinker/alcoholic/friend/child/sibling/parent/spouse/adult-child/stepsibling/etc, in every permutation.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by jacquesm on Friday August 06, 2010 @03:05PM (#1582012)
> At some point, rushing to "be right there beside him on the off-chance that it would help" may be more hurtful than helpful.

That too is a possibility, but not a certainty. That is exactly what makes these things so hard.

> As you noted in your first comment, maybe "he's drinking because it brings out the brother in you".

Yes, but I have absolutely no idea if that is the case or not, and even with my own brother (Maurice, 12 years my junior) I'd have a very hard time to figure that one out. Let alone that I could know which way that coin landed for someone else. I haven't a clue, to be frankly. But I thought that saying that might open the OPs eyes to some of the weirder possibilities.

In the end almost all addictions are a from of escape, the question is from what and why and if it can change, and the first step will have to come with recognising there is a problem, which for the moment the OPs brother does not seem to agree with. So that makes it a very complicated and tricky situation.

Unfortunately alcohol addiction is a subject that strikes pretty close to home for me and I could tell you some stories that would make your hair stand on end. This also means that I may not be the most rational person when looking at this as an issue, personally I'm instantly more worried about the brothers nearest family (wife, kids and so on) than the brother himself. Scars like that heal only very slowly.

Re:Ask HN: My brother is addicted to alcohol. How do I help ... by adw on Friday August 06, 2010 @02:59PM (#1581994)
My heart's going out to you here. First and foremost, I've got to say that.

What I'm going to say next is going to sound dreadful. Being there may help - may well help - but you've got to be prepared, because if you aren't, it won't. Love is not enough. Alcoholism is an illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism_in_family_systems