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Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @01:29PM (#15818178)
Honestly if they need to make money, they can lay off a ton of staff, and license their logistics software to a lot of companies. It wouldn't be what their game plan has been, definitely a severe pivot but they would be a money printing machine for years to come.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by djsumdog on Thursday November 30, 2017 @01:37PM (#15818254)
> they can lay off a ton of staff, and license their logistics software to a lot of companies.

I have a feeling this isn't as easy as you think. There are some great talks on Uber's microservice architecture and it's pretty insane. They could create new services, but I have a feeling their existing infrastructure is very custom. They've got over 1,000 microservices and it's actually difficult to get an exact number.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by gaius on Thursday November 30, 2017 @01:40PM (#15818283)
Uber's microservice architecture and it's pretty insane

Symptomatic of too many engineers and too little leadership

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by bunderbunder on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:41PM (#15818840)
"Too many engineers" is the impression I tend to come away with whenever I attend a tech talk by someone from the more fiscally beleaguered of the tech darlings.

The talk is invariably about some really impressive bit of software that appears to have required equally heaping measures of smarts and money to build, and also appears to be a $10 solution to a 10¢ problem.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ethbro on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:29PM (#15819220)
Never underestimate the ability of someone with an IQ of 135 to make every problem difficult.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by endorphone on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:32PM (#15819242)
Yet technology has never been a problem or a limiting factor of Uber. Uber deserves plenty of criticism, yet it seems rich to blame technology when they grew from nothing to enormous with few if any hiccups. It worked.

But yeah, extraordinarily few internal projects can be turned into an external project without enormous rework. It's only the myth of middle managers who perceive software as a growing asset who think otherwise.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by sidlls on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:37PM (#15819288)
That explains most of the engineering culture in the Valley, really. Even the "leadership" is on board with it, because they have their own resume driven development to pursue.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by maxxxxx on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:12PM (#15819578)
"license their logistics software to a lot of companies."

It's quite tricky to package an internally used system into something that can be sold and used by others. It most likely takes years to get to any significant amount of sales.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:22PM (#15819658)
Every taxi company on earth would buy this immediately.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by jdmichal on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:26PM (#15819687)
That is... Overly optimistic at best. You're assuming every taxi company on Earth:

* Thinks they have a logistics problem in the first place.

* Thinks that software can solve that problem.

* Are in the market for software to solve that problem.

* Think that Uber's software is the software that would solve that problem the best.

That's a hell of a lot of assumptions, each of which is fairly easy to pick apart.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:43PM (#15819825)
I politely disagree. Taxi companies hate ride sharing companies. As an industry that refused change for decades saw a software company come in and eat away market share quickly. If Uber were to 'go away' and allow the taxi company to use the ride hailing software they would be all over it. [1][2][3][4]

And this is just the taxi industry, there are plenty of industries that would love to use a logistics software to help their business. The only real magic Uber has is this software, the rest is easily replaceable or overhead.

[1] https://daymondjohnssuccessformula.com/launch-pad/cab-compan...

[2]https://www.watchdog.org/california/the-uber-effect-why-cab-...

[3] https://www.quora.com/Why-do-taxi-drivers-hate-Uber-if-its-c...

[4] https://therideshareguy.com/what-taxis-need-to-do-to-survive...

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by watwut on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:00PM (#15819983)
Ubers big magic is subsidising rides. You can do ride hailing app without uber.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:10PM (#15820060)
Of course you can but most taxi companies do not want to be in the app development business. And most other ride hailing apps are not very good. They'd rather focus on their main line of work which is transportation. People know Uber, that app works, people would use it if it was available.

The subsidizing is what made them a household name, along with the ease of use.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by notahacker on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:20PM (#15820569)
The other ride hailing apps are in the business of selling hailing services to taxi firms and have sales teams dedicated to doing so, are not despised by taxi firms, and provide solutions optimised for regulated taxi firms. If they tend to provide surprisingly few drivers and poor price estimations and the app companies are orders of magnitude smaller in terms of revenue and geographic spread, that's probably an indication the licensed-partnerships-with-cab-firms market is more awkward and less lucrative than it sounds.

And the taxi firms usually won't and often legally can't use Uber's pricing algorithms which is pretty much the only secret sauce to the app, they don't want to ignore bylaws that Uber has cheerfully skirted around and they don't want their expensively-licensed drivers competing for leads on an equal footing with new Uber drivers.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:57PM (#15820785)
Yeah to be honest I wasnt even considering the pricing algorithm but just the supply/demand matching portion of it. I feel there is a lot of value there, billions? Maybe but probably not, but I feel this is a huge asset if they run out of runway and need to stay in existence.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by madeofpalk on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:16PM (#15820093)
I understand that there are taxi companies worldwide and I'm sure they operate different by different types of people, but I still think you're overestimating these taxi companies and what they want.

I worked for a very big "Old Media" company in Australia when we rebuilt one of their key properties. Their "definition of success" was to _not accelerate the rate of decline_ of page views. Since then I've realised that these types of businesses are ran by people who are motivated differently than 'us'.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:42PM (#15820317)
For sure, I agree with that. My original point was Uber has a pivot that they can use to make money. Layoff most the people, license the software, profit. It might not work for everyone, but it will definitely work for some.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by watwut on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:04PM (#15820470)
They could be food if they would be willing to invest money and refine refine refine. They are not. So, even if they would buy from Uber it would be for cheap.

Plus any other startup or company can build such app to compete.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:21PM (#15820580)
Im not sure what you mean by 'They could be food'?

Any start up could build this, but most companies don't want to deal with an MVP and the bugs that come with it, or a startup that may or may not exist in 6 months, etc... Companies will over pay for enterprise grade software if it has a history of just working. This is why Uber has an advantage, software that has a track record of doing what it says it does.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by watwut on Friday December 01, 2017 @12:56AM (#15822225)
I meant "good", but either typo or autocorrelat got in the way.

I think that companies like taxis are cheap and while they are willing to pay, they are not willing to pay much.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by gaius on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:58PM (#15819968)
Every taxi company on earth would buy this immediately.

Every taxi company on Earth (well, at least in the UK) has an app of their own now, even if it's just a white-label with their branding applied. They all let you book a journey and tell you the name of the driver and the reg plate of the car, and have a nice animated map of how far away the car is. No-one will buy it.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:08PM (#15820039)
They are trying in the US as well but most the apps are garbage and no one uses them. Uber (and Lyft) are ubiquitous now and I think there would be a much higher adoption rate if they licensed it. Most companies also do not want to be in app development, if you could just buy software that works and focus on the core of your business companies would be much happier. This happens in giant enterprise-y businesses today. They consistently overpay on software that just works and lets them get along with their actual work.

But as I mentioned above the taxi industry is only the first immediate one I'd tackle, there are plenty others.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by maxxxxx on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:31PM (#15819730)
What exactly? Most taxi companies probably can run on a spreadsheet or s simple database. What does Uber have for them?
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:43PM (#15819830)
For ride hailing?
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by maxxxxx on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:49PM (#15819885)
And that would justify a 50 billion dollar valuation? They would need to create multi-billion dollar market to make it worthwhile. And also learn selling to businesses.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:59PM (#15819978)
Oh the valuation doesn't mean anything except to new potential investors. It's essentially a made up number that means nothings especially since they are not earning a profit and don't look to any time soon.

But that aside, yes a pivot would require them to do things differently, just as in your example learn selling to businesses However every taxi company in the world would jump at this opportunity immediately. The same industry that refused change for decades and had their parade rained on when Uber came around would greet this change with open arms. Especially if Uber were to 'go away' as a result.

There are going to be down rounds for Uber in the future no matter what, valuation means nothing if your business won't survive.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by andrewem on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:20PM (#15818656)
Their revenues are in the billions per year, and so their investors would be looking for new revenues in the billions. The assumption that there's an untapped multi-billion dollar market for logistics software that they could quickly dominate - quickly enough to avoid running out of money - seems unwarranted.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by bwilliams18 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:31PM (#15819238)
There's an enormous opportunity in UberEATS if they can get the unit economics right. They could also retreat into already profitable markets .
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by rtpg on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:09PM (#15820856)
I've used UberEATS a couple times, but after figuring out that it's basically impossible for delivery people to make much real money off of it I feel really bad.

Not sure if the unit economics can ever work out.

Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by ProAm on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:09PM (#15819551)
Revenues are in the billions, but profits are nil, and if it comes to bankruptcy vs pivot and earn a profit everyone will find it acceptable. Of course they'd want billions, they want an ROI from the unicorn, it might not be there in its current unicorn form.
Re:Uber’s Losses Widen as SoftBank Launches Bid to Buy Shares by madeofpalk on Thursday November 30, 2017 @01:57PM (#15818439)
Also they could maybe stop literally giving away free money.