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Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by StreamBright on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:54AM (#15814854)
You mean violate the political stance of Google or any other arbitrary properties they got. You can go and compare search results across Duckduckgo, Bing and Google to get a full picture how much the search results are censored. When people talk about "net neutrality" I always wonder why isn't there outrage against this, because it is definitely not neutral. Same goes to many Google services, most notably Youtube.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by f_allwein on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:13AM (#15814921)
No, this is an entirely separate process. The wikipedia link you shared relates to content that is illegal in a country, so consequently Google does not show it. E.g. in my home country (Germany), this includes some types of Nazi propaganda. I would assume all other search engines follow the same rules.
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by StreamBright on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:05AM (#15815090)
So in your country can you look stuff up about China and Tiananmen Square? Well you can't in China. This is censorship coming from the state. Now go on Youtube and look for PagerU videos. I understand that conservative views are not popular in Google but filtering legitimate content is just bad.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1406441&st...

What about Dave Rubin? Does he fall into the same category as nazi propaganda according to you? What about Christina Hoff Sommers? Same question. And the list goes on an on. I do not necessarily agree with these viewpoint but I strongly against censoring them just because it does not fall inline with Google's political agenda.

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by soundwave106 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @08:57AM (#15815695)
On much of this, it's not Google's political agenda here from what I see... it's advertisers in general.

You are aware that Youtube faced a huge backlash earlier this year from large scale advertisers over "hate videos" and "extremist content": https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/24/15053990/google-youtube-a...

Defining what a "hate video" and is "extremist" can be vague, so it's not surprising that some strong political channels are caught in the crosswinds, even if they are not necessarily "hate speech" or "extreme". (After all, Youtube is probably relying heavily on user feedback to determine what to flag). It's also not surprising that other things are caught in the crosswind (as the Ars Technica article mentions, LGBT content was also caught in the crosswinds.)

Youtube's most recent advertiser-drive purgek came over "inappropriate" videos aimed at children. Again, advertisers are driving what some might call "censorship". https://www.cnet.com/news/youtube-deletes-150000-videos-foll...

Basically, I feel like strong advertiser presence in the future is going to heavily focus Youtube towards more "mainstream" oriented material in the future, especially on what can be monetized.

Is it censorship? Not really -- no one is going to force companies to spend money to advertise where they don't want to. Feel free to start your own video platform that doesn't have Youtube's current corporate advertisement pressure.

At this point, in my opinion, the energy some are spending in fighting Youtube's monetization policy ("1st Amendment" lawsuits against Youtube are going to fail, in my opinion) would be better spent in making sure the web remains open. So that any Youtube competitors, some of which might focus on hosting "non-mainstream" content that Youtube might ignore in the future, actually have a chance.

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by StreamBright on Thursday November 30, 2017 @09:39AM (#15815981)
I disagree. You are mixing together two categories: legitimately bad content (like the scary kid videos) and content does not fall in line with Google's political stance. As an advertiser you are targeting a very specific narrow population anyways and it is super easy to exclude your ads showing up in videos that you do not approve. And just a counter example to your point:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-halts-potenti...

This was in production for god knows how long.

"Feel free to start your own video platform that doesn't have Youtube's current corporate advertisement pressure."

Well I do not use Youtube as much as I can. I use alternative video content providers. Anyways, this argument is silly at the very least.

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by soundwave106 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @10:36AM (#15816505)
Why is the argument silly? Any "solution" to this that I can think of would be awful.

Let's throw a counter example on another platform. Most American talk radio is conservative. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/2015/07/13/why-all-t...) IMHO the reasons for this are largely demographic oriented as specified in the Forbes article -- consequently, liberal specific talk radio has not done as well as a business model since, say, the 1980s. Conservative specific talk radio has.

It's pretty easy to Google grumbling from liberals about Clear Channel being conservative and crowding out liberal talk and whatnot. These arguments seem as silly to me as the arguments about the political stance of Google (which I also think is more driven by business dollars and cents, not explicit political lean).

At any rate, what's the solution here? Force Clear Channel to host liberal political talk via government decree? That would be about as awful as forcing Youtube to monetize conservative videos via government decree.

The only arguments that make sense in this direction to me is that American radio, in effect, is a monopoly. It might be difficult to start a "liberal specific talk radio" format even if there was a solid business case for it, because the airwaves are dominated by only a few corporations. (I would argue that this actually played itself out more in the world of music -- a lot of music never crossed into the playlists of corporate radio or MTV, because of various reasons. Which is why Napster was so heavily embraced by many once it showed up.)

Likewise with Google / Youtube: I would be much more receptive to arguments along these lines. If they became a defacto monopoly (I don't think they are there yet, but this is a danger these days), only one "content policy" would exist. And that definitely would be a problem.

Hence why I think the real issue here is keeping the web open and competitive.

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by leephillips on Thursday November 30, 2017 @08:54AM (#15815676)
It's important to realize that Google censorship to appease a foreign government sometimes affects search results in all countries, including the U.S. For example, search results worldwide are partly determined by Google's decision to avoid offending the government of Pakistan with content that may be critical of some aspects of Islam: https://lee-phillips.org/youtube/
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by freeflight on Thursday November 30, 2017 @09:22AM (#15815855)
This isn't reserved to Pakistan, the US, Islam or Google. [0] Tbh if I had a choice between nudity being censored and bigotry being somewhat buried, I'd always go with the later. But for whatever reason a certain demographic, from a certain country, takes quite a lot of offense at the sight of something as silly as a female nipple.

[0] https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/09/censorship-is...

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by leephillips on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:43PM (#15817686)
I'm confused by your mention of "bigotry". Does it have anything to do with the content of my comment?
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by jrs95 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @09:21AM (#15815843)
It would be better to say this includes some types of "Nazi" propaganda, since the modern usage of the label is far broader than literal Nazism.
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by tpolzer on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:48AM (#15815023)
In theory all other search engines have to follow the same rules, in practise nobody cares if ddg shows illegal results.
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by dominotw on Thursday November 30, 2017 @09:52AM (#15816105)
Usual response I get is that its easier to switch search engines so its not necessary[1]. Neutrality seems to be a function of availability of choice and ease of switching.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15045653

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by sillysaurus3 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:08AM (#15814899)
Concrete examples?
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by vetinari on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:50AM (#15815034)
This is more about youtube than google search, but it will be not that different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0c1Bph1jrQ

After all, it goes from the top "We're not arguing for censorship, we're arguing just take it off the page. Put it somewhere else. Make it harder to find." - Eric Schmidt

Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by StreamBright on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:07AM (#15815099)
Christina Hoff Sommers, Dave Rubin, Prager University, all of their content is delisted and demonetized on Youtube. Non of them is illegal content.
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by benmmurphy on Thursday November 30, 2017 @08:54AM (#15815681)
I don't think google is to blame for this. This is being driven by what google (rightly) thinks advertisers want and advertisers are worried about their brands being associated with this content. Google is just reflecting the values that a lot of people in society hold. Most people aren't comfortable with people expressing opinions different from what they hold and so this is where we end up.
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by barry-cotter on Thursday November 30, 2017 @09:15AM (#15815803)
No need to delist it for advertisers benefit. Demonetising it would have worked fine. If you can’t show ads on it what have advertisers got to complain about?
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by jamespo on Thursday November 30, 2017 @08:09AM (#15815408)
But it's available? Seems like your comparison with Tienanmen Square falls a little flat.
Re:Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016) by StreamBright on Thursday November 30, 2017 @10:13AM (#15816320)
I was pointing out that I am very well aware of the difference between government initiated censorship vs. Google just randomly filtering something that it disagrees with.