News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by MichaelMoser123 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:33PM (#15812657)
>Amazon FreeRTOS ... and extends it with software libraries that make it easy to securely connect your small, low-power devices to AWS cloud services

why do IoT devices have to connect to the cloud? Is there any legitimate use case other than reporting data gathered on the customer? Why do have all these gadgets have to snoop on us?

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by CamperBob2 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @09:46PM (#15813057)
why do IoT devices have to connect to the cloud?

Because otherwise you're in the business of explaining to non-technical users how to open up ports in their NAT firewalls and do other fun things required to make the device Just Work(tm) from any Internet connection.

It's important IMO for device vendors to offer as many options as possible in that regard. Ideally it should be possible to use a given device with a paid service sponsored by the manufacturer, a free service run by anyone else, a private server running on the customer's own LAN, or with no external servers at all.

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by inamberclad on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:48PM (#15812759)
If you're going to sell a consumer an internet connected device, they're probably going to assume that it'll work on its own and they can review and adjust things on a website (that isn't a 192.0.0.*)
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by fgonzag on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:24AM (#15814020)
Sadly, thats the IoT world I want to live in. All the devices communicate only through the internal network. This increases security a ton by default.

If you want to use it outside your network, then you do it the old fashioned way, by setting up a vpn to your router.

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by ianhowson on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:29AM (#15814032)
I've shipped a few products that work like this, but the support burden is incredible. Practically no users are capable of configuring IP addresses or forwarding ports on their router.

Config-by-phone or config-by-cloud is definitely the way to go for consumer gear -- see Roku or Chromecast for great examples.

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by smcl on Thursday November 30, 2017 @04:53AM (#15814620)
Hm, I wonder if it is just the IP address people don't like to use? Like if it used Bonjour/Avahi and you could (after a bit of initial config) connect to your internet connected lightbulb via http://kitchen-lightbulb.local would that be better?
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by rkangel on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:28AM (#15814751)
There are some other good reasons mentioned here, but this is the one that makes me glad they are: firmware updates.

Insecurely designed, networked embedded devices are a serious issue. Look at the botnet based on CCTV cameras for an example. A company that doesn't care about security is still going to produce crap devices and isn't going to update, but for a company that cares about security, ability to patch devices in the field is an absolute necessity to stay on top of vulnerabilities.

The ability to add features and keep your device 'fresh' is a nice bonus.

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by notatoad on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:40PM (#15813287)
Why do internet of things devices have to connect to the internet? Because that's the whole definition of them. Without an internet connection, it's just a thing.
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by MichaelMoser123 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:52AM (#15814332)
devices could be connected on a home network, without calling home.
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by notatoad on Thursday November 30, 2017 @01:58PM (#15818451)
they could, but again: then they aren't an internet-of-things device. They could do cool things, but without an internet connection it's not IoT. And the internet connection is the selling feature for most IoT devices.

I can turn my dumb non-internet connected thermostat up if i'm at home, the interesting thing about a Nest is that i can turn up the thermostat before i leave work and the house will be warm when i get home. The internet connection is the value-add. If you don't like internet connected devices that's cool, but IoT devices can't have the same feature set if you remove the internet connection. the call-home is not useless. If you want to argue that certain devices don't need an internet connection, that's fine. and in many cases i'd agree. but arguing that the whole class of devices that is defined by being connected to the internet doesn't need an internet connection is pretty silly.

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by MichaelMoser123 on Friday December 01, 2017 @12:52AM (#15822206)
If you want to turn on the thermostat from work then it does not need to connect to the cloud, also it would be safer not to expose the thermostat directly to the net - have a more secured control server on your local home network and have that one call the thermostat.
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by patja on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:47PM (#15812742)
When I think of IoT I think of devices gathering data, and the data has to go somewhere to be useful. What's the alternative to putting it in the cloud, self-hosting the storage? That's what I would do, but I think it is a pretty niche market who wants to deal with the storage, backing it up, etc.
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by recursor on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:08AM (#15831245)
IMHO the apps should be storage agnostic, with setup including choosing storage (possibly including paid plans).

Meditating that through a standardised storage connector would mean the IoT apps have very little to do.

That could be something like SFTP, but there are some interesting things like https://remotestorage.io/ that allow you to write your own storage provider so decentralised apps can choose their own data store/change storage later without changing the app.

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by sigstoat on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:52AM (#15813780)
> why do IoT devices have to connect to the cloud?

to allow a "secure" connection (plus all the snooping and reporting).

as near as i can tell, there's no way to concoct a device to run on a home network which an average consumer's browser will be happy talking SSL to.

(if anyone knows a way i'd love to hear it.)

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by foobard on Thursday November 30, 2017 @11:34AM (#15817055)
Lets Encrypt is adding wildcard support in 2018

https://letsencrypt.org/2017/07/06/wildcard-certificates-com...

Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by sigstoat on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:59PM (#15817870)
i don't see how that helps. what wildcard pattern are you thinking will be useful, and issuable?
Re:Amazon FreeRTOS – IoT operating system for microcontrollers by recursor on Saturday December 02, 2017 @04:32AM (#15831158)
Not a wildcard solution (or a particularly legit one or one a serious vendor is going to take up, but could work for DIY):

DNS poison within LAN (or proper internal DNS, or even HOSTS if DIY) for .product.tld Product initiates letsEncrypt for: uid.product.tld And posts some form of identity proof to vendor, setting up a link to carry out letsEncrypt challenges.

Verification negotiated between letsEncrypt and the vendor via public resolution of uid.product.tld

Device completes cert process with letsEncrypt and installs cert to the device.

LAN now has TLS to uid.device.tld internally (via DNS spoof/poinon) and vendor hasn't seen the cert. (but, if not DIY, the vendor is distributing a DNS poisoner in their product)

() Caveat: I've still not set up letsEncrypt in the wild, so don't know it's limitations, but from the doc's the above looks doable.

The lack of ability to have a browser TLS to *.local without an internal CA or non-public root and the endpoint management to goes with either is a pain.