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Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by mediaman on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:20PM (#15812572)
But why arbitrarily limit its potential in this way?

If we could run the economy on blockchain, why not?

Like you say, blockchain as a concept has many desirable traits that make it superior to a fiat currency. But if Bitcoin in particular were designed in a way that allowed it to avoid rapid fluctuation, I could see it slowly rising in use, until after many years it's powering a lot of commerce instead of the US dollar. As it is, it's going to reach a ceiling of usefulness that a differently architected blockchain wouldn't have.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by deepGem on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @09:32PM (#15812997)
If we could run the economy on blockchain, why not?

One potential obstruction to this is probably the speed of transaction confirmation. I believe it takes about an hour for a transaction to be confirmed. If we equate that to a current fiat currency based transaction confirmation which takes just a fraction of a second, we are way off. I may be wrong in this comparison. What I do understand is that, you can't have the blockchain and also the speed of a fiat currency based transaction confirmation. What I don't understand is - Is this confirmation so crucial. I see blockchain as more amenable to existing workflows that takes eons to complete, such as an approval in an organization.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by mrgordon on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:21PM (#15813449)
I agree with SomeStupidPoint that at the current speeds it blows away both ACH and wire transfers if you need the transfer to happen pretty quickly but don't want to pay usurious fees.

Every major blockchain is trying to shard or find other solutions to increase scalability of confirmations. Most coins have it on the 2018 roadmap to deliver lots of these improvements which will bring the transaction times way down. If some coins stay slow, then others will be used instead for situations where you need to compete with the speed of a wire transfer.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by andrioni on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:28AM (#15814028)
Aren't the bitcoin transaction fees actually higher than what you would get with banks? I don't know how it works in the US, but I can do free almost-instant transfers inside Germany with no problems at all, including for online transactions (like Amazon).
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by zaarn on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:43AM (#15814295)
For transfers under 500$ (roughly) the fees from a proper bank transfer will be more expensive.

SEPA has basically no fee and is usually next day, with SEPA SCT Inst it'll soon be 15 seconds (and no more than 20 seconds) with the same fees, after which bitcoin can't compete on that anymore.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by diegocerdan on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:55AM (#15814350)
You can transact using Ethereum in a couple of seconds. Multiple block confirmations are important to be sure you are in the longest chain. With big amount transactions you should wait for multiple blocks, being 6 enough to be extremely sure.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by SomeStupidPoint on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:26PM (#15813229)
Digital currency isn't competing with credit card networks, it's competing with ACH.

ACH transfers take days; wire transfers take minutes to hours and cost tens of dollars. There's ever possibility of running a digital currency that can clear transactions on the order of minutes with minimal cost. Bitcoin isn't well suited to that, partially because it hasn't been managed well.

A credit card would still pre-authorize against a balance at an institution, but it would settle between the customer and merchant bank on the same schedule (when the merchant cleared their transactions for the week) or faster (eg, on the order of minutes). That makes credit cards considerably closer to cash (fast) than what they are now, like checks (slow).

And for people who wanted it to settle immediately or treat it like cash, they could make a direct transfer, and have it clear on the order of minutes. (Not great for coffee, but something like buying a car.)

Digital currencies can be those things, they're just not.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by deepGem on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:34PM (#15813491)
And for people who wanted it to settle immediately or treat it like cash, they could make a direct transfer, , and have it clear on the order of minutes.

Can you please elaborate on this a bit more. What is direct transfer and how is it different from bitcoin /ethereum payments. From what I understand, they are the same.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by SomeStupidPoint on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:54AM (#15814855)
That was connecting on to the previous paragraph, and contrasting with pre-authorization through a payment network -- I meant a direct transfer of currency from customer to merchant, instead of using a financial institution as an intermediary to vouch for you having money.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by candiodari on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:17PM (#15813432)
> If we could run the economy on blockchain, why not?

Because we can't. Given that there are trade imbalances between countries (and assuming we want the economy to actually continue to run, as opposed to transfer all the wealth in the world to first one country, then one person, and then stop alltogether)

That means trade imbalances must be forgiven. Our current system does that through credit creation and crashes (bankruptcies). Bitcoin simply ignores the problem. Therefore bitcoin economic model is designed to transfer all the wealth to the rich and stop.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by ric2b on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:20AM (#15815154)
As opposed to the current model where newly printed money is given straight to the rich (banks)? I don't see how Bitcoin is in any way worse than that.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by perseusprime11 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:07PM (#15813142)
Limiting makes sense to me. Just like you cannot mine infinite gold on this planet, you are not allowed to mine infinite amounts of bitcoin or else it would lose value. Will gold be as values as what it is now if it available in abundance.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by baby on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:25PM (#15812604)
It’s never going to be useful if it doesn’t get adopted/get traction. The raise has attracted a LOT of people. We’re at a point where even my grand mother is starting to hear/read about it in the news. We’re at a point where my parents are thinking of investing in bitcoin.

At some point. When this hype and unstability will have allowed for tools and bridges to be built, it will be not be welcome anymore.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by mediaman on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:41PM (#15812708)
I think you are saying that the publicity of Bitcoin will have created awareness of blockchain concepts, and from the ashes of Bitcoin will rise a blockchain that could be a good currency, and that new blockchain couldn't get awareness without BC's headline-grabbing hype that clears the way.

That makes sense. Maybe BC is just the sacrificial starter we needed to ultimately result in adoption of a blockchain that works better. And some people will make a lot of money from BC, some people will lose a lot, and in the end we'll get something better.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by baby on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:07AM (#15814896)
I'm not saying that this will happen for a different blockchain since the tools are mainly buing built for bitcoin.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by psyc on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:22PM (#15812585)
There are more than 1000 cryptocurrencies. One of them must have the properties you're looking for.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by nrhk on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:47PM (#15812747)
Not a single one of them has the ability to scale. At least nothing close to production ready.

You have the PoS folks, IOTA's got an interesting strategy and some other paradigms but for now its still conjecture. Decentralized distributed technologies will likely always be slower than centralized monoliths.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by mrgordon on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:22PM (#15813456)
Its on the 2018 roadmap for pretty much every (non-ICO-pump-and-dump) coin.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by mvindahl on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:20AM (#15814204)
Really? 1000+? That's crazy.

There is a great irony in the fact that cryptocurrencies are designed to be finite in size to ensure their value, yet the number of potential cryptocurrencies in the world is pretty much infinite.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by Retra on Thursday November 30, 2017 @03:05AM (#15814139)
Just because 1000 of something exists doesn't mean they have every property among them.