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Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ksec on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:22AM (#15765544)
Erosion of Middle Class "may" have started long before, but it rapidly took off after 2008. ( There are Middle Class / Level wages, but those wages dont put them in Middle Class anymore )*

The way I see it, is either Government protect their Workers and working class with benefits and wages, Like what many parts of Europe have done or they allow Union to do it.

And i know this is considered an extremely unpopular opinion in US.

* Does any one know if this middle class problem is also a thing in Germany?

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:48AM (#15766206)
Well, companies will just use more robots, fire more workets. Robots don't get unionized, they don't need health insurance or the gov't to step and protect them.

European economy is slow compared to the US due to high taxes, too much social protection and needless state meddling in the economy. If they introduce a tax on robots it will only get worse.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by pjc50 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:52PM (#15767427)
> European economy is slow compared to the US

Define "slow". Growth rates are comparable everywhere with France and Germany fractionally ahead of the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/31/uk-comes-bo...

(of course all of those are pretty low at the moment, which may be a more general post-2008 problem)

"Too much social protection" and "high taxes" seem to me to be memes aimed at benefiting the top 1-10%, with little grounding in truth. If you look at marginal tax rates faced by median families, and compensate for the ways in which this includes things like healthcare which aren't included in the US, it's much less of a difference.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:28AM (#15769594)
Slow as in not robust enough. It's essentially on life support since the EU crisis of 2011. The US has pretty much recovered after 2008. Euroscepticism is just a symptom of things going south just about everywhere in Europe except maybe Germany and Switzerland. Just look at the failed ECB stimulus policy with negative interest rates.

The US is at the opposite pole, meaning too little social protection. I was thinking about some kind of middle ground, like in Canada or the UK.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by _Tev on Friday November 24, 2017 @09:19PM (#15774079)
> Euroscepticism is just a symptom of things going south just about everywhere in Europe except maybe Germany and Switzerland. Just look at the failed ECB stimulus policy with negative interest rates.

That sounds wrong. Example: Czech rep. had much more expansive monetary stimulus policy (we printed quite a bit of money), is booming on Germany-level and yet is super eurosceptic.

Euroscepticism is just newest brand of populism in Europe. Especially after ECB stimulus Europe is getting better, "on life support" sounds like ridiculous hyperbole.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:17AM (#15774690)
Its because of the migrant quotas that were imposed unilaterally.

Devaluing the CZK wouldn't have been possible if your country had switched to the Euro like Slovakia did.

The problem is the ECB does not want to devalue the Euro mainly because German fears of hyperinlfation. So they're trying to stimulate sluggish growth with negative interest rates. Which doesn't work. It only destroys pensions because it's esentially a tax on money.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ntsplnkv2 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:07PM (#15766373)
And then no one will have jobs and be able to buy any of the goods produced by robots.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ksec on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:06AM (#15769519)
Which part of Waitress, Bus Drivers, Cleaners, etc get Robots took over in the past 20 years? ( Not now when AI and Robots are in use, but in the past )

Yes technology was part of it, but rampant inflation or vast increase of liquidity is also another factor, and economist are still puzzled as to why wages aren't going up.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:36AM (#15769942)
They weren't cheap enough over the last 20 years. But they took over various manufacturing sectors, from vehicles to food.

Your obvious cleaning suspects are maybe the first ones to go. Most of the floor cleaning nowadays is done by people operating some sort of cleaning vehicle. Also, most niche cleaning jobs requiring more detail won't be replaced by robots soon. Truck and bus drivers will probably go as well, maybe in 20-30 years. Until then, this sector is just going to get more regulated with electronic log books, dynamic weight checks, satellite tracking and such. Waitresses I rather doubt will go away doring my lifetime.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by InternetOfStuff on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:09AM (#15770215)
> * Does any one know if this middle class problem is also a thing in Germany?

German here.

At this point, I think it's not yet a problem comparable to the US, but there is rising (perhaps overblown, but certainly not unfounded) fear of a social decline among the middle class.

Remember, the German employment environment (I'm struggling to find a good word) is different from the US. Trades are stronger and more respected, university education is free, social systems offer more protection (but only from outright poverty, not from social decline).

So the pressures are probably not felt a sharply. But there is growing worry.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by rconti on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:03PM (#15766340)
*citation needed.

In economic terms, 2008 was basically yesterday. Everything I've read points to the erosion of the middle class being related to stagnant wages in real terms going back DECADES.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ksec on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:13AM (#15769538)
Yes, or 30 years ago. The curve just got a lot steeper in 2008. That is from a Global perspective, since US just export inflation to everywhere else. Basically every asset class, mainly property market has been rising much faster then wages. Yes technology has made things much more efficient, hence the much much slower price rise in food, transport, clothes. But the majority of living cost is housing, and that is a part technology has little to no effect on.