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Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by nathan_long on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:34PM (#15750328)
The argument that Netflix needs to pay Comcast is absurd.

Why are people buying high-bandwidth plans from ISPs? Because they want to use services like Netflix. Netflix is not costing ISPs money, it's giving them something to sell.

Imagine that taxi drivers want to charge the airport for overwhelming them with passengers and you'll see the absurdity.

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by guiambros on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:01PM (#15750550)
> The argument that Netflix needs to pay Comcast is absurd.

Absurd for you, not for the carriers. And, unfortunately, they are the ones dealing the cards now.

Outrageous, for sure, but according to Chairman Pai's plan, carriers will be able to charge both consumers and content providers.

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by jimktrains2 on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @06:05PM (#15752510)
> Absurd for you, not for the carriers.

Yup, and only because those same carriers are making competition impossible, if not illegal.

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by mring33621 on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:41PM (#15750877)
That's fine. If the charges are onerous enough, then the content providers may choose to build new carriers of their own.
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by nathan_long on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @03:30PM (#15751254)
> the content providers may choose to build new carriers of their own

Oh sure. Suppose I'm about to found yaymoviesyay.com to compete with Netflix. I learn that if I don't pay Comcast, its subscribers can't use my site. Same deal for AT&T and Charter.

Before this rule change, my cost to do business was "hosting costs."

Now it's either:

    A) hosting costs + payola to ISPs
    B) hosting costs + cost of building my own last-mile network
Guess how likely I am to start that new business?

    A) Super incredibly unlikely
    B) Ridiculously unlikely
    C) Extremely, ludicrously unlikely
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by notirk on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:52PM (#15750968)
That's fine?! Consider the fixed costs of building a new carrier! Today's carriers will price it below where it makes sense to "build your own carrier", these costs will be distributed among consumers and we'll all be paying more for the same access we have today. The only difference is today's carriers have higher profits and a stranglehold on our access to the internet.
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by s73ver_ on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @07:16PM (#15753012)
I'd rather not hope and pray that they're able to do this. Plus, I know that in many parts of the country, they won't be interested.
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by marcosdumay on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:56PM (#15750506)
It's completely absurd. Yet, it is the one high impact case that actually happened in real life and led to the FCC imposing neutrality onto the ISPs.
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by barrkel on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:57PM (#15750514)
Comcast is like the road, not taxis; the last mile is where all the expense is in consumer internet. And congestion charging is a legitimate thing.

Why should Granny have to pay more on her internet connection to subsidize your Netflix addiction? Because equal pay for equal access is that: a subsidy from light users to heavy users.

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by vaishaksuresh on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:15PM (#15750666)
I don't get what you're saying. How am I making Granny pay more? There are bandwidth caps and data usage caps, I pay for what I use. If I'm paying less than the cost of the resources I'm using, charge me more. Why does Granny or Netflix have to pay comcast for what I do on the internet?

My electricity provider does not charge differently for setting up and maintaining the connection based on what I do with the electricity, they just charge me for what I use. Why should an ISP be treated differently?

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by jimktrains2 on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @06:04PM (#15752487)
> There are bandwidth caps and data usage caps, Actually, commercial ISPs don't really do bandwidth caps and datacaps are simply laughable as a means of controlling congestion. (Honestly, they're literally not a means of controlling congestion.)

I really just want my ISP to be like my datacenter: 95%ile bandwidth billing. Nothing else. No services. No filtering. No "speed boosts." Just a connection to other networks.

> I pay for what I use.

Unless you have a metered services, you are not paying for what you use in that sense. You pay for access, sure, but not for what you use.

> My electricity provider does not charge differently for setting up and maintaining the connection based on what I do with the electricity, they just charge me for what I use. Why should an ISP be treated differently?

The issue is not metered billing. I think most people would be OK with it; it'll suck for some but an honest effort to keep the 95% of usage at normal would go a long way, I thinks.

The issue is when you're being billed differently for what you consume, not how much. Would you be OK with electricity used by an LED bulb from company X was metered at 2 times that of company Y which is 2 times that of an incandescent? _That's_ the issue, not metered billing.

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by vaishaksuresh on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @11:18AM (#15757958)
I get what you're saying and that is my point.
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by nathan_long on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:24PM (#15750739)
> Why should Granny have to pay more on her internet connection to subsidize your Netflix addiction?

You've got it backwards. Granny and can I both pay per byte. We can even pay surge pricing based on congestion.

The question is this: why should I have to pay more for bytes from Netflix than Granny pays for bytes from Ravelry?

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by acdha on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:16PM (#15750668)
That's like saying UPS should be able to charge Amazon more per-package because they ship a lot of packages rather than, say, changing their per-package or bulk discount rates.

Nobody is saying that ISPs cannot charge for usage, only that they shouldn't be allowed to do so in a discriminatory manner: if, say, they wanted to set a cap or QoS shares they should be able to do that as long as it's applied to everyone rather than just the companies which don't / can't pay the danegeld.

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by pwagland on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:15PM (#15750659)
Assume that this is the case… then just do the same as they already do in Australia, and put caps on how much you can download. I assume that you are totally cool with that, and indeed they already do this with a lot of mobile plans. Then Granny, who obviously doesn't watch Netflix, can get a cheap very limited plan.

The issue here is that what comcast really want, is to sell Granny a cheap plan, and sell Netflix a plan, and google, and Apple (that app store and updates you know). Oh but wait, Netflix you are already paying a bunch to throw data on the net by the bucket? That doesn't matter… you have your last mile, and you also need to pay for everyone else's last mile as well. Oh, and Google, you also need to pay for everyone's last mile as well. It's just like a Winfrey episode: You can pay! you can pay! You can all pay!!

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by y4mi on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:06PM (#15750583)
so you're arguing that the ISPs are unable to price their packages at a reasonable value, essentially selling it at cost to consumers, and netflix has to pick up the tab?

thats just silly, come on!

if that were the truth, and it isn't, then they'd need to increase the price for the monthly package or decrease bandwidth for consumer packages.

/Edit: going with your example: amazon doesn't have to pay to keep the streets in service, despite causing lots of (heavy) traffic through their deliveries. they pay their delivery provider. just like netflix pays for its bandwidth to their ISP

Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by aaronblohowiak on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @05:10PM (#15752075)
Connection fee + metered internet is fairest of all, and aligns incentives nicely. Of course, users don't like "pay for what you use" and want "all you can eat" plans which leads to... this stuff.
Re:FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose th... by geon on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:28PM (#15750758)
I allready pay for bandwidth.