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Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by simias on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:07PM (#15687937)
I can't think of any way out honestly. You can say anything you want about EA but I'm sure they act very rationally. If despite the heavy backlash over the years they keep doing what they're doing then it must be working for them.

That's the problem with these lootboxes, given how fast they spread to every AAA games these days (including single player games where they hardly make sense in the first place) it's obvious that the maths work out for them. The amount of principled gamers ending up not buying the game is probably more than compensated by the dividends of microtransactions. There are not enough gamers who care enough about the issue to stop buying the game. The marketing and network effect is simply too strong. A mob downvoting a comment on reddit won't change anything, it's nothing but slacktivism. Might as well sign an e-petition at this point.

It's not the first time it's like this. "We don't want always online DRM! We won't buy your game!", "We want to be able to host our own dedicated servers for multiplayer! We won't buy your game!". And now it's the new normal, hardly anybody expects these things from new releases or even mentions them. Lootboxes and microtransactions are headed down the same path IMO.

Here's my prediction: five years from now every big release will contain microtransactions one way or an other and nobody will find it surprising or inappropriate.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by kibwen on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:47PM (#15688312)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 was released on Nov 10, 2009. Here's a famous image from Nov 12, 2009: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--uJYUJ7W...

As for your prediction, I think you're sadly spot-on. There will always be enough whales to make it worthwhile to pander to them, and milking them will be essential for any company that cares more about making money than about making a good game.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by kozikow on Monday November 13, 2017 @05:20PM (#15690836)
Probably ended up on EA PM's presentation justifying current practices.

Hate all you want, "pay to win" model works for extracting as much value as you can from each user. Same concept as Tesla artificially reducing mile range. I heard from someone working in a game studio about a "whale" user spending $1M dollars on microtransactions for a mobile game.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by bduerst on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:50PM (#15688333)
I think that prediction is a coin toss at this time. There's a chance it would play out as you say, but I think there's also a chance that as these games become more predatory, a new category of gambling rating will be defined. Sure the payout isn't cash, but it's still throwing money at a chance of gaining something of value.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by JBlue42 on Monday November 13, 2017 @04:26PM (#15690407)
Not to mention that the money made doesn't exactly make up for some of the workers' lives ruined by that company. Already had posts on here recently describing the white collar sweatshop that games labor is.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by rorykoehler on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @06:59AM (#15694304)
Micro transactions have ruined gaming for a casual gamer like me. Everything is such an obvious funnel to making a payment now. There’s no fun in it.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by fleitz on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:20PM (#15688068)
How annoying UX affects the bottom line was one of the most important lessons I learned working on apps.

Take for example removing the Cancel button from the sign up screen, 5-10% bump in sign ups, etc. (Eventually Apple made us 'fix' this)

Generally, the only time a minorly annoying UX affects you negatively is when the platform penalizes it, like the notifications prompt on iOS, if they don't agree the first time you ask, you have to make the user to into settings to enable it. So generally you put your own prompt in before the system prompt, else users might deny the request.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by deadmetheny on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:36PM (#15688208)
I hope you're proud of yourself for actively making software user hostile.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by fleitz on Monday November 13, 2017 @02:02PM (#15689100)
The users speak with their actions... If they do the thing you want them to do more with a 'bad' UX than with a good one logic dictates they prefer the bad one.

It would be morally presumptuous on my part to say that what I find to be annoying is not what they prefer.

It's like clickbait listicles, they get written because they work.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by pwinnski on Monday November 13, 2017 @02:56PM (#15689638)
This is utter tosh. If they do the thing you want them to do, than logic dictates nothing about their preferences at all.

If changing the UX results in a significant change in behavior, that actually suggests--I mean, "logic dictates" you've taken away an option that a significant number of people preferred so much they used it when it was available.

Think about it this way: Given the choice of watching channel A or channel B or turning off the TV, I choose turning off the TV. If you take away that choice, I'll choose the lesser of the two remaining evils. That does not mean I prefer not having the choice to turn off the TV.

Post-facto rationalization is just that. Users are not expressing a preference for dark patterns.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by fleitz on Monday November 13, 2017 @07:36PM (#15691595)
People don't have the option to not click on listicles? They don't have the option to use another app? They don't have the option to close the app?
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by razakel on Monday November 13, 2017 @08:52PM (#15691967)
They have the option, but you're using psychology to trick them into thinking they don't.

You're using a medical science to manipulate people so you can make money. You're disgusting.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by deadmetheny on Monday November 13, 2017 @04:33PM (#15690462)
I'm going to give you the choice of being stabbed or punched. It would be morally presumptuous on my part to assume you don't actually enjoy the choice you have made, given you took that choice logically.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by fleitz on Monday November 13, 2017 @07:37PM (#15691602)
I'd take being punched, easy choice.

Removing a cancel button or publishing a listicle is hardly a false dichotomy, you can close the app, you can not click on it.

Users love anti-patterns which is why they frequent businesses that engage in them, rather than choose another business that doesn't. I had your inclinations too when I started making them, I protested that this would lead to various bad outcomes which didn't happen. None, zero, nada. Sign ups went up, traffic went up, etc.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by sizzle on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @03:00AM (#15693476)
"Users love anti-patterns which is why they frequent businesses that engage in them, rather than choose another business that doesn't. "

Dude have you ever considered the plethora of other reasons users may choose a platform/service with 'dark pattern' over others, such as that platform/service being more feature rich or having a greater utility to that user? You are deluding yourself thinking your anti-patterns make a difference in the end. Sure signups may go up, but user engagement will surely drop off if the experience is crap or hostile after onboarding. Your sign up flow is just one small portion of a user's journey in your platform/app.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by razakel on Monday November 13, 2017 @08:55PM (#15691977)
People don't necessarily do things because they like them or want to. Addiction is a thing.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by deadmetheny on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @09:46AM (#15695402)
I cannot wait until the tech bubble bursts and people like you are living on the streets.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by bunderbunder on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:17PM (#15688035)
So there's a market for these kinds of games. I don't like microtransactions and what they do for gameplay, either. But I don't see the point in getting worked up about it like this. It's so much easier to just not buy those games, and spend my money on the kinds of games I do enjoy, instead.

It leaves me thinking that maybe melodramatic wailing on Reddit is secretly a big part of the fun.

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by dvlsg on Monday November 13, 2017 @12:31PM (#15688162)
That's part of the problem, though. For a lot of these games, the player does enjoy them - just not the loot boxes and how they have affected how quickly "free" players can unlock things.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by bunderbunder on Monday November 13, 2017 @01:45PM (#15688887)
I guess I still don't see the problem, then.

Is the problem that EA has some sort of moral obligation to introduce only the kinds of game mechanics that a specific set of people enjoys, and anyone who responds to (and, apparently, is willing to pay a whole lot of money for) different game mechanics can go jump in a lake?

Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by razakel on Monday November 13, 2017 @08:57PM (#15691989)
Getting your credit card out is only a "game mechanic" in dodgy casinos. There's a reason gambling is regulated.
Re:The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history by bunderbunder on Monday November 13, 2017 @10:43PM (#15692454)
Yup. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that members gambling and video game industries even exchange notes on how to attract and coax money out of whales.

Gambling isn't really my cup of tea, either. But I suppose I also shouldn't be surprised if I were to go to one and discover that some portion of the people there are loudly complaining about what a rip off everything is, but not actually leaving the casino to go find something else to do.