I love text.

I don’t have to remember it or write it down - it's already written down.

Also I have a feeling that a lot of the "have a meeting" guys are the same that will try to tell another version of what was said in the meeting.

You aren’t sure even with text though - at some point I had an ex-colleague telling me what I had written, so I found the actual mail that proved my version.

His answer: but that was not what you meant...

I agree, I really dislike the move to everything by text. Text has it’s place for communication (HN is a perfect example) however it is far easier to work through something even remotely complicated with voice instead of text. We speak much faster than we type, we can add inflexions and tone to convey meaning in a way that text can’t (although emoji help) and, most importantly, there are no typos when talking.

My job requires interacting with lots of people, be it customers, suppliers, investors I can easily interact with 100 people a day who are not onsite and by mid afternoon I look forward to those I can deal with on the phone - even just for two minutes as it’s a break from typing. I often thank suppliers for calling when I answer as I know it’s a chance for some wider bandwidth communications that won’t require numerous back and forths.

I can understand being able to discuss a complex issue over voice, but can you explain how this is possible?

> it is far easier to work through something even remotely complicated with voice instead of text

I find that this is the exact opposite. Trying to explain an error message (or have an error explained to me), or providing numbers, a name, an address, etc. is always a nightmare on the telephone.

"I'm sorry was that a 'e' or a 'z'?"

"Was that a 9 or a 5?"

Maybe it's just a bad phone connection where we can't hear each other properly. But even in the impossible crystal clear reception circumstances:

"What are you seeing right now?"

"Navigate to this address: http://<unnecessarily long url> "

"I talked to someone before and they said..."

"Please hold"

These are all limitations of the platform, or maybe limitations with how it's implemented.

How exactly are you able to work through 'complex issues' better through a phone?

I find that when typing the way to get through things quickly is to anticipate there responses and try to head them off in the initial email unless you want it to become and endless back and forth of one line emails and this is very hard to do.

I speak much quicker than I type so (250-300 wpm vs 50-60) as do most people so the communication happens a faster.

Finally, it is much easier to convey meaning and feelings g with tonality, non-word sounds (hmmmm, argh, a laugh etc) and then when negotiating tactical silences.

I was trying to renegotiate our payment terms with a supplier last week and while I knew we couldn’t get what we really wanted (even though every other supplier gives us those payment terms) I felt we could get an improvement over the current deal. So I rang their financial director, he asked some clarifying questions to my request (that I couldn’t have easily anticipated being the o my ones he would ask) he said no, I hmmmm, reiterated the problem at our end and implied switching supplier at the end of the season, he hmmmm’d, tried to deflect and when it was my turn to talk I intentionally stayed silent, he waited a few seconds and then filled the awkward silence with an offer of different payment terms that are halfway to what I really want and much better than what we have. If this was done over email he would never of given us the new payment terms as the text medium is too limited for this kind of negotiation.

Oh and when reading our letters just use the phonetic alphabet, much easier.

I’m not saying the phone is perfect t for everything but it is an important part of our cumminication options and is bette than text is an number of sutuations that the OP and many other commenters are ignoring in tech’s need to not talk to people in real time.

So what I'm hearing is that phones are still great for social engineering. No wonder millennials hate phones.

I’m 30, a millenial, the FD in question is in his 50s. It wasn’t social engineering it was negotiating to improve my businesses trading position - something that HN’ers should appreciate.

I’m also an engineer with a PhD in electronics, code regularly and run a factory. All this is to say that I’m not some sales/business development person who is clinging on to an old medium, I’m a business owner using the right tools for the job.

> “Why don’t you just call them, and get it all figured out right now?”

Because it's rude. It has always been rude, but now with the phone in your pocket it's that much worse. She doesn't know what her friend isn't doing at the moment, and shouldn't impose.

The featured article gives a better impression of this than I can... but I'll add that the tragedy of the commons is a factor.

You can't just show up from outer space and scream out of someone's pocket whenever you want. This will hopefully be a fleeting technological phenomenon.

Even if you subscribed to this bizarre principle that it's rude to call someone unannounced, you could always just ask by text.

I find the principle that it's OK to call people at any time very bizarre.

I think it depends when you were born.

In the 70s/80s/90s it was very common to get phone calls (on landline phones) at all times of the day from family members or friends.

I remember being on the phone to friends from school for hours in the evening, I don't even recall the subject matter of the conversations but it's just what you did.

Then as more and more people got on the internet, using other communication mediums like IM, IRC email etc became more and more common, and nowadays I'd find it very unusual for someone to call me out of the blue.

I agree- I didn't mind getting calls when it was the only way to communicate long distance. It was still inconvenient but better than nothing.

That's better but it's still kind of imposing. We are not socially wired to be compatible with the technology to magically steal people's attention from space.

If you don't want to be bothered, just turn off your ringer and notifications. Don't try to invent non-existent social norms. Part of the reason I have a phone is so people can reach me.

> Don't try to invent non-existent social norms.

That's how new social norms come into the world. Often, they get invented in response to technological change. For example, prior to answering machines being widespread, the norm was to never ignore the phone ringing. After, it became OK to ignore the phone if it was inconvenient to answer because if the call was important, the caller would surely leave a message.

Now there's a push to normalize texting to see if it's a good time before calling, at least if the call isn't urgent. I support this: it's a very minor imposition on the caller's time and reduces interruptions when the callee is busy, as the content of a text can be checked at a glance.

I am not saying new norms don't develop. I am saying people shouldn't assert the existence of norms they wish existed but don't.

Sure, but now you see why it's easier to text: you might not be able to reach a person at that moment. That's why it takes your daughter and hour to organize things, because the people she's organizing with are busy for the hour.

A lot of people have a smartphone in order to use mobile internet services and apps and would prefer not to be able to be called.

Simply owning a phone is not an invitation to be called.

You and your circle of contacts may love being called and that is fine for you but don't impose this "norm" on others.

Personally I like to be available for emergencies but would prefer routine information exchange to be handled via text.

This social norm exists.

>Because it's rude. It has always been rude, but now with the phone in your pocket it's that much worse. She doesn't know what her friend isn't doing at the moment, and shouldn't impose.

You have to understand people originally got phones so they could be contacted which is in direct contradiction to your assertion "It has always been rude". Actually no it was originally desirable. A whole unwritten social etiquette sprung up around use of phones, in fact, because some people could be rude or found certain behavior rude. But people got phones because they wanted that medium.

Certainly when cell phones first sprung into existence some of those social contracts changed due to the cost and the fact in the US the recipient paid for the call and there were no unlimited calling plans. It could be considered rude keep someone on the phone then they're paying anywhere from 25 cents to one dollar per minute to speak to you.

When texting first came into play each text could be 10 or 20 cents each. Again, sending excessive texts would be considered rude.

Social norms have changed over time and I really don't know anyone young or old who shares your view that they consider any phone call an intrusion no matter the reason.

through the 80s and 90s I never felt a sense of rudeness to call someone. If they didn't want to be bothered they'd let it go to their answering machine.

it's only since texting became a thing that it started to seem more rude to call but like others have said we just ask "ok to call?"

Texting to ask if it is okay to call is, IMO, annoying and rude. A phone that can take texts has caller ID and voicemail to near certainty, call me and I'll decide whether or not to accept the call.

Don't make me deal with a content-free exchange to get to the one with content.

I've moved to the "Just make a phone call" camp after hating phones for many years. I still don't really care for phones, but getting stuff done is often much quicker when you call someone. If given the choice I would drop Skype and other online calling services, they're still no where as reliable as telephones and always a hassle.

My preferred communication means are: phone, email and everything else could disappear and I wouldn't care. Really, everything is just a poor implementation of the phone or email.

> I would drop Skype and other online calling services, they're still no where as reliable as telephones and always a hassle.

Counterpoint: I travel a lot, mostly between the US and Europe and use different SIM cards and therefore phone numbers in different places. Half the people I want to talk to at any given time would have to make an international call, and don't necessarily know where I am and which number to use.

My Skype and Google Hangouts usernames don't change though. Even apps like Signal and Whatsapp that use a phone number as an identifier (which I HATE) continue working the same unless they need to be reinstalled. Sometimes I don't even get a local SIM card and those apps still work wherever there's a Wifi connection.

There's probably some global roaming thing I could pay through the nose for, but it isn't important enough to me to be that easy to reach.

The interminable nature of texting conversations drives me crazy.

I'm always glad when someone calls and I always call people instead of typing down thoughts. Even better than calling is meeting someone IRL, but of course that's not always feasible. Then I usually begin by telling him or her how grateful I am that somebody is choosing the direct way over some form of texting and there are, sadly, far too many. Like your dad, I wouldn't buy anything not specially designed for transmitting voice in an analogue fashion. Too few options there, recently... Most of the people I communicate with are aware of this, thank goodness, but it's always hard to tell new acquaintances that I don't use Viber, Whatsapp, Facebook and even reluctant to use SMS.

I enjoy meeting people IRL but cannot stand the phone.

Don't you find it inconvenient to be interrupted by the phone?

Sometimes I'm in a bad mood or deep in thought and it's just not a good time for me to get into communication mode.

Then there is always the awkwardness of ending the call.

Talking on the phone effectively sucks a lot of my energy and causes anxiety afterwards. It's a non trivial event.

I'd much rather see the person in person where we can communicate properly and with full attention and the time to properly do so.

But some people seem to be able to effortlessly answer the phone and switch their train of thought to deal with whoever it is without skipping a beat. I envy that ability.