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Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by nikcub on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:51PM (#15654869)
Considering the history of spoofed messages aimed at manipulating the market, they should have cryptographically signed the message

That said - if this is true, they've done the difficult but right thing.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by corben on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:06PM (#15655085)
This guy is saying he has confirmed it with Mike, one of the signers of the email. https://twitter.com/lopp/status/928310251719405568
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by VMG on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:10PM (#15655127)
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by gtrubetskoy on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:13PM (#15655169)
It is my understanding that signed messages are generally frowned upon in the Bitcoin community, Satoshi never signed his messages.

This is because it is more important what is in the message than who wrote it.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by VMG on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:17PM (#15655221)
> This is because it is more important what is in the message than who wrote it.

not in this instance

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by gtrubetskoy on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:37PM (#15655476)
> not in this instance

not really. why does it matter that this message is authentic? that 2x _really_ isn't going to happen? it can still happen, and it doesn't matter who posts what online.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by TD-Linux on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:29PM (#15656046)
Jeff Garzik was the only author of btc1, the primary 2x implementation. For it to survive for any length of time, someone needs to step up and take over code maintainership.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by s17n on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:17PM (#15658084)
"Who posts what online" is exactly what determines whether or not 2x happens.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by TD-Linux on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:33PM (#15656077)
This is effectively the announcement of discontinuation of software, and anything relating to that is usually signed. For example, Bitcoin Core release notes are signed when sent out via email, the binaries are reproducibly built and signed many times, and most git commits are signed by their author (and all merge commits are): https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by black_puppydog on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:18PM (#15655233)
I am torn between "This is somewhat tautological" and "This (the second sentence) is plain wrong, and the current situation is a perfect example why."
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by asciimo on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:57PM (#15657517)
Do you have a citation for your understanding? Seems plausible but this is the first time I've ever heard this part of the mythology. I'm especially interested because Craig S. Wright went on and on about how uncomfortable it made him to sign a message with an alleged Satoshi key. I wonder if he created this story.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by IncRnd on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:29PM (#15655355)
Satoshi was in favor of digitally signing Bitcoin transactions to provide non-repudiation as an underpinning of Bitcoin ownership.

> it is more important what is in the message than who wrote it.

That statement actually favors the signing of this textual message, since digital signatures provide integrity control in addition to non-repudiation of origin.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by gtrubetskoy on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:47PM (#15655592)
Satoshi could be a whole building of people, we don't know who he was, and so it's not even clear what "authentic" would mean in his case.

Integrity of the message doesn't matter - if you see a message and it makes sense to you, then that is all that is necessary. You can agree or post a response to argue a point. If it's something stupid, what does it matter that it's signed? And if it is from "Satoshi Nakomoto", how naive would you be to actually trust that?

Another way to illustrate this - in the Bitcoin world it is best to assume all messages are spoofed and never trust signatures. Even a signed message can be fake, it could be a lie or it could be written under duress. The only solution is to not trust signatures.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by IncRnd on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:02PM (#15655741)
> Satoshi could be a whole building of people, we don't know who he was, and so it's not even clear what "authentic" would mean in his case.

That doesn't matter, because people can independently look at the design of the crypto. Your point about authentic in this context is meaningless.

> Integrity of the message doesn't matter - if you see a message and it makes sense to you, then that is all that is necessary.

That's exactly why you sign a message, to judge the veracity of the contents according to a trust anchor.

> If it's something stupid, what does it matter that it's signed?

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of signing messages. You don't sign to check stupidity, but to assert that important yet unsigned messages can be repudiated from the party believed to be the origin.

Another way to illustrate this - in the Bitcoin world it is best to assume all messages are spoofed and never trust signatures.

That's WHY you sign messages. It isn't a reason not to sign messages. You are confusing authentication of origin with identity of sender.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by gtrubetskoy on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:23PM (#15657198)
> You don't sign to check stupidity

Right, you use your brain to check for stupidity, and once that check is complete, identity, authenticity and consistency of the message does not matter.

Bitcoin is a trust-less protocol, you cannot and should not trust any node, miner, developer, any online or offline post. Trust is not a thing in the Bitcoin world, and the tradition of not signing communications is generally rooted in this concept.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by IncRnd on Thursday November 09, 2017 @11:41AM (#15663809)
Trust in digital signatures is 100% of how Bitcoin works, and other nodes, miners, and developers are definitely trusted.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by rothbardrand on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @07:18PM (#15658539)
We know who satoshi is. We can't prove it, of course and we respect him enough to leave him be in peace, given what he has done (and the fact that the current team is stronger than him.) He doesn't like the attention he gets even now when only some of us have worked it out.

Please feel free not to believe me-- you shouldn't, I could be shilling for Craig Wright (ironically the one person who has proven that he isn't Satoshi) ....

At this point Satoshi is a principle and a philosophy and bitcoin needs to survive without him.

The person who used that alias would be offended at the idea that the direction of bitcoin should be determined by him.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by EGreg on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:05PM (#15655767)
What you are saying is, reputations are irrelevant.

In this case you can get all sorts of sybil attacks to manipulate consensus by sheer numbers, including fake news and so forth.

Imagine HN without reputations or limits on spoof accounts.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by rrhd on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @08:07PM (#15658820)
So if I send a faked message from this guy saying "we changed out minds, fork now" it's not going to be an issue at all?

Ridiculous.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by air7 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:00PM (#15654985)
Which way would spoofing this message send the market?
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by brut on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:05PM (#15655071)
Some people were waiting for the "free money" to come so they could buy "alt coins". Some will be happy to see BTC unchallenged. Price will be a balance of both.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by panarky on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:31PM (#15655385)
Futures on the forked coin were trading north of $1000 earlier today.

After the announcement, the price dropped to $1, and has since rebounded to $200.

https://imgur.com/a/XOvWS

Maybe the $1000 BT2 price wasn't really a bet on free money, but on the prospect that BT2 might replace BTC.

If the expectation was that post-fork BTC + BT2 ~= today's BTC, that means that today's BTC price was depressed by this possibility.

Now that BT2 is cancelled, the value flows back to BTC.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by IncRnd on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:42PM (#15655524)
Where is there a market for futures on cryptocoins?
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by panarky on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:54PM (#15655666)
BitMEX, CBOE, Deribit, and others all offer bitcoin futures, with new exchanges appearing all the time.

The Chicago Mercantile Exchange says they'll start trading Bitcoin futures by year-end.

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by IncRnd on Thursday November 09, 2017 @11:32AM (#15663737)
Thank you. I wasn't aware of Chicago Merc. That holds a lot more interest to me than the others. I'll look up your reference to Chicago.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by jdhn on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:10PM (#15655137)
I'll admit it, I was one of those people. On one hand, no "free money" for me, but on the other hand, I'm willing to accept this because it will hopefully lead to a stronger Bitcoin in the long run.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by nikcub on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:22PM (#15655278)
If you bought in when the 2x futures began trading you've already made more from the BTC price rise than you would have from the air drop.
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by nathanasmith on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:05PM (#15655065)
You'd think it would send it down assuming people were buying in anticipating the free coins after the fork. Since there aren't any free coins to get now and assuming that was propping up the recent price rise, why not sell? At least in theory.

edit: First three responses to the question all within one minute of each other with all completely different opinions. That's why it's so difficult to predict these things!

Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by kaffeemitsahne on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:05PM (#15655064)
Same way it's going right now? (up)
Re:Segwit2x Bitcoin Fork Suspended by nikcub on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:18PM (#15655236)
I assumed the same. Mainly because anecdotally the last dozen people I know who were new buyers knew little about the fork and were mainly buying in via the price-news cycle

Conversely for those who were following this removes the uncertainty around the fork - the downtime of a couple of days, potential 40-50 minute block times, lost coins, replay attacks, etc.