News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by hprotagonist on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:47AM (#15654128)
in general, it is difficult for me to separate a reasonable concern borne of the knowledge that a thriving economy is important from a sense that, so far, the big retail chains that are closing many locations sell junk that i both do not want and think is largely superfluous anyway.

Anyone got a reasonable way to synthesize those competing thoughts?

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by munificent on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:31PM (#15654624)
I think the America that will result from this die-off is a better place. Less suburban sprawl. Less giant eyesore big-box stores that no one enjoys spending time in. More informed purchases because people buy stuff online where it's easier to compare reviews.

But I think there will be significant, very painful collateral damage to people during this transition and I've very sympathetic to people hit by the job losses. Retail is one of the few remaining sectors in small towns. Most other work is becoming increasingly concentrated in big cities or automated away. The days of the US as a patchwork of thriving small towns is ending, but many people still live in those towns. Worse, the ones still there are often there because they are the least able to move — poverty, family commitments, etc.

The US is rapidly turning into a country that has no place for the unskilled, but is also failing to provide the education needed to deal with the millions of unskilled citizens.

I'm also confident that in all of this, it's not the finance industry that's going to be hurt. They'll pull another "too big to fail" maneuver and we taxpayers will bail them out, yet again transferring money to the ultra-rich.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by TallGuyShort on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:52PM (#15654882)
>> More informed purchases because people buy stuff online where it's easier to compare reviews.

I was wondering about this forcing stores to provide more expertise and more flexible inventory. In my town 2 stores in a specific industry went out of business 3 years ago and made a big deal in the papers about how too many people were buying direct from manufacturers instead of visiting their store. I had been to both stores, asked some questions about products, got dumb answers and bad attitude, so I went home and bought everything online. In the last 2 years, 3 new stores in that same industry, 2 of them MASSIVE, have opened up near by (one of them in the same strip mall), and are doing very well. The difference? When you walk into these stores the employees know what they're talking about and they VERY quickly adjust inventory based on current market trends. Now I make most purchases in one of these 3 stores and not online - because I can do research better by talking to them and I can get most things immediately. It's required bigger investment from the owners, but they have thrived where previous stores failed and blamed e-commerce.

Doesn't work with a lot of commodities, but if you're in retail, I think it's clear you need to specialize and add value - and that requires more investment. Don't just be there and expect to keep existing.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by suresk on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:24PM (#15655992)
The risk with this approach is that you become a showroom for Amazon.

I knew a guy who ran a shoe store and provided a high level of personalized service when selecting the right shoe for your feet, gait, use, etc. Hiring and training employees who were knowledgeable enough to do that, plus having to spend a lot more time with each customer, made it a lot more expensive to sell shoes, and when Amazon and other online retailers started offering shoes for a lot lower prices (because they didn't have to provide the same level of personalized service), he eventually went out of business because people would come into his store and have him help them find the right shoe, then go home and order it for 20% cheaper or whatever.

If you are a consumer, it seems rational to go somewhere and try something on, get expert advice about it, etc, then go purchase it wherever it is least expensive. Why pay 20 or 30% more or whatever for the same thing? Some sort of unwritten social contract (this is usually the reason I don't use local stores as showrooms)? Time sensitivity? As a retailer who goes this route, you kind of have to pin your hopes on those things.

Showrooming is a real problem, and retailers are faced with the decision of trying to add value and hope people end up buying there even though it costs more money, or trying to cut costs in every possible way to compete on price, and I don't know that it's an easy choice all of the time.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by ianbicking on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:59PM (#15654974)
> I think the America that will result from this die-off is a better place. Less suburban sprawl.

Why would this lead to less suburban sprawl? Unleashed from any interest in physical commerce, wouldn't suburban sprawl perhaps be even more attractive? There's a lot of assumptions here that these changes will have us reverting to older forms, but I don't see any reason why.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by com2kid on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:13PM (#15657105)
> More informed purchases because people buy stuff online where it's easier to compare reviews.

And then get shipped a knock-off product that doesn't do what the customer needs.

Or spending hours sorting through endlessly scrolling pages of choices, taking hours longer than just walking down store aisle.

Online shopping has some benefits, and also some serious drawbacks.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by cr0sh on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:44PM (#15655555)
> Less giant eyesore big-box stores that no one enjoys spending time in.

Instead, we'll have giant eyesore big-box empty buildings on oversized empty parking lots littering the land that nobody wants, and few who can afford to tear down and replace.

And what will they replace them with? New houses or apartments or condos few can afford? Maybe office space?

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by therealdrag0 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:18PM (#15655921)
Seems like the building could be turned into indoor paintball lazertag, rollerblading, offices, without rebuilding from the foundation.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by jamesmp98 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:04PM (#15655056)
I don't think there are enough skilled jobs for everyone
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by Cookiesaurusbex on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:19PM (#15658100)
There would be a lot more jobs if we readjusted the way we look at work. Lower full time to 30 hours a week, eliminate "free overtime" salaries, require vacation time, maternal/paternal leave, worker owned co-ops keeping their jobs from getting shipped away, start building publicly funded mental health/ drug rehab clinics everywhere. There are a lot of ways to create more jobs. The fact that the jobs don't exist now doesn't mean we can't make them, we just need to shift our priorities.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by viridian on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:58AM (#15654267)
I think the synthesis is the hope that the market replacements for these stores is less terrible. The big displacer in the last few years has really been Amazon, who I think offers a better shopping experience than most overpriced specialty stores. Many of these stores only held firm in the market due to having an information advantage over the consumers, as well as the convenience of providing items that are similar in kind (ie toys at toys r us). The effects of a post online shopping and price comparison world are still being shaked out.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by sandworm101 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:53AM (#15654211)
>>> junk that i both do not want and think is largely superfluous anyway.

I'm reminded of an article I read last year about parents buying presents for kids at Christmas. In the 90s it was easy. The kid wanted a thing. A gaming device, a dress, or a car... there was an object that the kid wanted to own. That object was sold at a store. But today's kids don't want things. They have the iPhone. What they want is 50,000 likes on facebook. Their happiness is tied less directly to things than social acceptance. Often having the thing leads to that social acceptance, but increasingly not. Your seeing the junk as superfluous, and mentioning it here on HN, fits with that shift away from retail goods and towards social acceptance via online communities.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by thefalcon on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:57AM (#15654252)
Thankfully 50,000 likes on Facebook is cheaper than the object at the store. (Only somewhat kidding. Don't buy your kids Facebook Likes.)
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by jacalata on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:09PM (#15654386)
My kids, no, but that will be a hilarious birthday present for my brother.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by lotsofpulp on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:07PM (#15654364)
I think they still want things, just happen to be more "experience" related, which are more expensive. International travel, expensive restaurants, "off the beaten" path type adventures, performances etc are all in vogue, and all are good for displaying status on Snapchat and Facebook. A $50 toy isn't good for that, and the younger kids probably find more enjoyment in using phones or with video games.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by smileysteve on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:23PM (#15655984)
I think that this must be isolated in specific communities. Keep in mind that the "average American" rarely leaves their state.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by SolaceQuantum on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:53AM (#15654202)
Would it help if you considered that if over 6000 stores closed, it is very likely the majority are small stored and not big chains? From what I saw in Bloomberg article it was 550/6000 are chain stores. That leaves significantly more to small shops that are trying to provide employment and selling worthwhile goods to their local communities.

For example here in buffalo we have small stores for spiritual goods that also serve as community centers for such spiritual practices.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by eternalban on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:25PM (#15654549)
> stores ... that also serve as community centers ...

Historically, public markets have also provided a platform for important non-commercial informal civic interactions. The review section of e.g. Amazon doesn't seem to cut it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agora

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazaar

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by munificent on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:32PM (#15654642)
> The review section of e.g. Amazon doesn't seem to cut it.

True, but neither does the strip mall surrounding a Best Buy parking lot.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by eternalban on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:14PM (#15658063)
Yes and no. When my family immigrated to US when I was a teenager, I was struck by the role played by the local 7/11 (!) and strip mall as the hang out place for the suburban kids. There was literaly no where else in the suburbs. So yes, not exactly an "agora" but better than nothing.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by ChuckMcM on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:06PM (#15654356)
It is general market dynamics that at times stores will have things that don't sell. Whether or not "you" find them useful or not is a different story, sometimes a store will be doing well selling things you might find useless, simply because you are not the target market.

The confluence of events that the article alludes to are that many retail stores went through a period of consolidation and buyout through leveraged debt. As anyone with big credit card bills understands, it sucks when you're spending a huge chunk of your income just to pay interest on your credit cards. (or in these stores cases their junk bonds).

This massive debt load is forcing changes faster than what one might see organically and as a result there is a lot of turmoil in the retail business.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by bsenftner on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:32PM (#15654645)
Plus, the strategists that put these retail chains in this debt are no longer there actively working on strategy within this mess. There is more profit for them, personally, working on other deals. Net result, the "rock-stars" set up a mess, pull huge gains from the table, then leave the 2nd or 3rd team to navigate a very difficult debt load they left behind.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by javajosh on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:03PM (#15654331)
Optimistically, it means that workers will be freed up to do things that are more important. Cynically, all you (a generic programmer type) really need is food, lodging, a laptop, an internet connection, so anyone not producing or repairing those things are superfluous to you, which is actually the majority of humanity (even if you include infrastructure and supply chain). "Humanity" itself becomes a wasteful, carbon-emitting luxury you allow yourself for sentimental reasons.

Or you can be sentimental for practical reasons:

"Eliminating the middleman is never as simple as it sounds. ‘Bout 50% of the human race is middlemen, and they don’t take kindly to being eliminated."

-Malcolm Reynolds (Firefly)

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by geoka9 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:18PM (#15656535)
> so anyone not producing or repairing those things are superfluous to you

But we don't program in a void, right? Somebody has to create work for us and those would be the ones doing "superfluous" things. In other words, nobody would need our programming if all they did was supporting our programming.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by petra on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:24PM (#15654543)
Progress, at least under capitalism, enables(or pushes) more and more people to do stuff that is less and less necessary, because junk is growth and growth is what's capitalism aimed at.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by wmeredith on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:26PM (#15654566)
It's a Brave New World.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:10PM (#15655128)
I'd say that "thriving" needs to be redefined. We think of "thriving" as being, say, 2007. It wasn't. That was an overheated, unsustainable bubble. "Thriving" means there's jobs, and growth, but it's not providing all the junk that everyone ever wants. Maybe "healthy" is a better word.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by Diederich on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:49AM (#15654155)
I share them, but I don't think they need to be synthesized.