News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by fredley on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @09:00AM (#15652426)
My approach is to compartmentalise functionality. I have a dumb screen with a Chromecast plugged into it. The screen is the much more expensive part of this setup, but should last for a long time. It supports inputs which will almost certainly be usable, perhaps with dongles towards the end of its service, for at least a decade, if past tech is anything to go by.

The Chromecast could be discontinued tomorrow, but it only cost £30, so I'll just replace it with whatever. Relying on your expensive TV's probably terrible and badly supported software is madness, but it's what most people seem happy to do. It's getting harder and harder to buy TVs that are not smart, and I find it maddening.

I take the same approach with Speakers.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by cletus on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @09:57AM (#15652980)
I'll add to this: absolutely no good can come from plugging your TV specifically into the Internet. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

As soon as you do you'll get nagged for software updates, you'll get told the privacy policy or the terms of service have changed (which you have to acknowledge) and apps for things like Youtube and Netflix tend to be inferior to those in boxes (eg Roku, AppleTV).

I buy my TV to be a dumb screen. Then I plug a Roku into it. If at some point I decide the Roku isn't working I throw it away and get something else. Worst case I'm out $120.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by dreamcompiler on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:01AM (#15653697)
Exactly. My TV and DVD player would very much like to know my router's wifi password so they can connect to the internet. Ain't gonna happen.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by scrooched_moose on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:36PM (#15655461)
Is that even possible anymore? About 2-3 years ago it seems like "smart" TVs completely took over.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by cletus on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:14PM (#15656502)
I bought a Samsung 65" 1080p "Smart" TV 2.5 years ago where that seems possible.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by scrooched_moose on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:38PM (#15656739)
Oh, gotcha, I misread your original post. I thought you were talking about truly "dumb" TVs.

Non-smart TVs basically don't exist anymore (Sceptre is the only brand I can find). You can usually get a smart TV and keep it off the internet, but I've seen horror stories of some TVs not working at all until being "updated" after unboxing.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by sitkack on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:08PM (#15659502)
We need a law that requires things work out of the box and can work while not connected to the net. Bonus points for requiring off switches for the "smart" features.

A similar pet peeve of mine is that the huge infotainment screens on modern cars cannot be turned off the majority of the time. Only in the VW Golf I rented did it actually have a way to shut the whole thing down.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by eumenides1 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @09:11AM (#15652519)
I bought a Visio specifically because it could be dumb relatively recently (1-2 years).

I think a dumb screen option will always be available because it's always going to be a value player in a world of Sony and Samsungs. The question is will the screen be a nice enough panel.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by dwyerm on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:54AM (#15654223)
My experience has been that you have to pay extra for a dumb TV right now, likely because of issues of scale. My last TV was an NEC E-series Commercial Display. Aside from not being encumbered by any smart-features, it has a serial port on it, to make automation even easier.

But I could have saved a lot of money by going with a conventional Smart TV, and it would have been easier to shop for it. Commercial displays aren't hanging on the wall at your local Best Buy, although they might be hanging on the wall at your local bar, restaurant, bank, etc.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:03AM (#15653048)
Even the budget Vizios now have smart features.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by cnr on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @09:35AM (#15652747)
Do you mean - "Vizio"?
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by gog on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:21AM (#15653898)
I agree, but this is not always possible. I was in the market for a new TV set couple of months ago and all the models with a great image technology come with the "smart tv" built in.

It is not possible to buy a high-end panel without it anymore.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by PuffinBlue on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:56AM (#15654243)
Sure, but it's totally possible to just sit on the sofa and watch it rather than type in your wifi password and connect it to the internet.

AS long as you just use it as a dumb screen, physically disconnected from the network, it'll keep doing it's job for year and years.

My TV is a Smart TV. I've never use that part of it. In fact, it came with a second remote control for managing the Smart features and I've never even put batteries in it let alone given the panel network access.

It's been happily humming along in dumb mode for about 4 years I think. Just plug a cheap accessory of your choice in (Fire TV, Chromecast, Roku, self built HTPC etc) and enjoy!

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:03AM (#15653042)
Non-smart TVs are mostly inferior panels now, as I understand it.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by logfromblammo on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:54AM (#15653611)
It may be about time to buy only dumb monitors, and buy the television tuner portion as a separate box, if you even still need one.

Of all the television sets I have owned since 1985, the native tuner included inside the device has been used maybe 2% of the time. The only advantage I have ever seen from buying a display screen as a television set is that it comes with speakers loud enough to hear from across a large room, and has as many as six different input ports. None of the screens I now own currently decode their own NTSC/ATSC/QAM signals.

My first "smart" TV was also my last, because LG made it obsolete within months of me buying it. Now it also functions only as a dumb screen, and is not allowed on my home network. Never again.

You don't need a smart television now. You don't even need a television. You need a monitor with HDMI inputs and speakers.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by dreamcompiler on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:04AM (#15653726)
I went down this path a few years ago. You're right, but monitors of size X tend to be much more expensive than TVs of size X. At least they did a few years ago.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:43AM (#15654089)
Monitors are less expensive at small sizes, I think. But otherwise I would agree.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by logfromblammo on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:43PM (#15654790)
And at this point, I would be willing to pay slightly more to not pack stuff into the case that I don't want, which may negatively impact the features that I do want.

And if you want a DisplayPort input in lieu of one of the HDMI sockets, that seems to add at least $30 to an otherwise identical monitor, even though DisplayPort is royalty-free. There does seem to be an attempt to segment the market to charge more for displays connected to a computer than for displays connected to a home entertainment appliance.

At larger sizes, I think the assumption is that if you don't have a TV tuner, you're attaching it to a computer, and if you do, you're not. And that breaks down at smaller sizes, where resolution and pixel pitch become an issue for computing, but less so for consoles and DVD players.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:42AM (#15654079)
I use the tuner, but, on the other hand, some budget TVs don't even have them. But like the other guy said, I haven't seen a lot of great deals on 65" monitors.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by logfromblammo on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:27PM (#15654579)
For large sizes like that, I think you may be able to get good deals on a sort of larger dumb monitor that is used in airports to display flight information, and to a lesser extent rotating decks of static advertisements. They aren't typically sold direct to consumers. I'm not sure whether their pixel response times are good enough for regular entertainment video streams, though.

I haven't done much digging on this, since 40" is plenty for the longest line-of-sight possible in my house.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:57PM (#15655704)
Yeah, that sounds pretty not-worth it to me.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by dwyerm on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:00PM (#15654301)
Maybe...? It is certainly the case that many non-smart TVs are focused on the signage industry. They might be brighter and more saturated than a conventional TV. They might be less capable of displaying smooth motion. On the other hand, they're built to be somewhat more sturdy and with more professional features. They have additional mounting features, serial port controls, and the build quality to run 24/7.

I'm using an NEC E-series 55" commercial display as my TV and gaming monitor. It's not a great TV, but it is solid and it's way better than the one it replaced.

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by mcguire on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:12AM (#15653155)
Do you have to configure it?

If it's never connected to the network....

Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:34AM (#15653419)
I don't think so
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by smichel17 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:12AM (#15653157)
This is vague; inferior panels vs what? Smart TVs? Monitors? Projectors?
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by emodendroket on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:34AM (#15653416)
I thought the meaning was clear. The good panels are put in smart TVs and not non-smart ones, so even if you have no interest in using smart features the smart TV may be a better choice.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by dpark on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:06AM (#15653754)
Exactly. If you want an OLED TV, you get a smart TV whether you want that or not. I’d rather buy a dumb TV, but that’s becoming less of an option for higher end TVs.
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by isolli on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:15AM (#15653193)
Can't you turn a smart TV into a dumb TV?
Re:Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018 by nepotism2018 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @09:47AM (#15652882)
Ditto. My chromecast just stopped working with my perfectly working 5 year old TV. Same chromecast works on newer monitors or TVs...google are just ignoring