Well, I did comment once on the Koltin Jetbrains forum, about how hard they make to download ... just kotlin ... outside of the jetbrains ide

and their response, on their forum, was that they are intentionally make hard to avoid the jetbrains ide while using kotlin

now technically you still can, kotlin is open source, and you can download it standalone, if you search hard enough

i am not really sure, how jetbrains think kotlin will help it long term to increase its sales .. but this seems to be one of their objectives .. they did not create kotlin just for the sake of it (and nothing wrong with that)

I am happy JetBrains became a full-blown real software company (where I count only companies with their own programming language) instead of aping Atlassian (their main competitor), and Kotlin has some interesting ideas. They are closest to Borland we have these days; independent small company with quality development tools. Though the code completion quality dropped so much lately (e.g. in PyCharm it became completely useless) that I am now actively trying to find replacements.

I wouldnt go as far as comparing them to borland

Remember that the community edition is open source

They are an open company and do offer a lot completly for free

Borland was .. a very traditional closed company

>> Borland was .. a very traditional closed company

One of the great things about Borland was they published the source code to their VCL (their main platform library Delphi and C++ builder applications used). So you could read, learn from, troubleshoot and debug with the source code. At a time when Microsoft and most companies didn't.

And the VCL design patterns were/are incredibly elegant, and studying them an excellent and accessible way for an interested programmer to learn some real software architecture skills.

>(e.g. in PyCharm it became completely useless)

Very weird; what happened ? In java/kotlin it is as great as ever in Android Studio

No idea; I do extensive tensorflow/keras/opencv/numpy/openai stuff and code completion there is a joke, I just get completely unusable hints. Maybe I am A/B tested by them or something, but I am forced to have browser with documentation/stack overflow opened these days. And IntelliJ used to be much better for me at around IDEA 12, since then code completion doesn't predict my typical choices at top places, I need to scroll down more and more. So that one is individual style-based. I also long for the days of simplicity as I refuse to keep huge amount of "how to do a certain thing in certain IDE" in my head; IDE should help me with the complexity of language and not impose another time sink on me.

Code completion has always been hit-or-miss in dynamic languages like python. Is it possible that something in your libraries (or maybe something in your programming style) changed such that the IDE can no longer make good guesses?

FWIW I've never found IntelliJ code completion in Javascript, Ruby, or Python to be very accurate. It's fantastic in Java and Typescript.

It's also fantastic for JavaScript in VSCode, thanks to VSCode automatically downloading type definitions.

I think you misunderstood something. You should use Gradle for standalone builds. You definitely don't have to use Idea.

> and their response, on their forum, was that they are intentionally make hard to avoid the jetbrains ide while using kotlin

do you have a link for this?

It's good you supplied the link, as you've misrepresented its contents somewhat. What they are discouraging downloads of is the standalone compiler, because if you want to compile outside of an IDE, gradle is the better choice.

As alternatives they suggest their online REPL (to play and learn without installing anything), IntelliJ (unsurprisingly their favourite), gradle, or maven. The latter are about as fully-fledged build systems as you can imagine and are easily used with any editor.

I'm sure there will be gradle plug-ins available for VS.Code or Atom, or a gradle mode for emacs.

> React is becoming a de-facto standard

The Vue.JS community would beg to differ.

But yeah, if JetBrains could implement something like the Rust Language Server for Kotlin I would be so happy.

Agreed with this. I use both React and Vue intensively, day to day. React and Vue both have pros and cons, but I would argue it's actually easier to optimize Vue apps.

Vue's reactive nature actually is superior, because something like Redux requires destroying, regenerating, and messaging around entire objects. This can create serious problems when, for example, trying to use Chrome APIs or manage component renders.

Also, although JSX is nice for developers, it's not friendly to designers. Vue, however, supports single file components that are very designer-friendly.

FWIW, Alibaba began creating their own native framework with Vue called Weex, which is now part of the Apache project. https://weex.apache.org/

Redux is not actually necessary for React, you can manage state without it.

Can you clarify how Redux causes issues in those scenarios?

Beg to differ it can, but as it stands the statement is correct.

http://www.npmtrends.com/angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-@angular...

Even more so when you consider that Vue itself is a React clone underneath. Templates compile directly into createElement calls internally and if you'd strip off Vue's outward complexity, the api surface, the syntax parsers, the observable system, etc., what would remain is React.

Well they can disagree, but React is vastly larger (in both usage and community), so I would say his comment stands.

I'll take a look at Vue.JS, thanks! Is there a way to use it from Kotlin or some other "sane" language as well?

It has pretty decent TypeScript bindings iirc, but the fundamental thing it does is prevent the need to mix HTML and JS inline. If you can hold your nose at Javascript, most of the project generators for Vue.JS seem to prefer using ES6/ESnext syntax so the language is much more tolerable than, e.g. Angular and Circa-2007 JavaScript.

You definitely can. The only major requirement is Java being installed on your machine. This project installs Kotlin compiler and runtime as npm dependencies