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Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by mindcrime on Monday October 30, 2017 @04:26PM (#15588572)
The few product ideas we came up with following the above process we dropped, often because we discovered that that space is ultra crowded or commooditized.

GoDaddy founder Bob Parsons once said something like (paraphrased slightly) "never be scared to enter a crowded market. Just be better than everybody else". Something to think about.

Beyond that, consider that your product is not the only dimension on which you compete. That is, there are other ways to compete besides having the best product. As we all know, the best product doesn't always win.

I'd recommend reading The Discipline of Market Leaders by Fred Wiersema and Michael Treacy, as well as Mastering The Complex Sale, The Prime Solution and Exceptional Selling, all by Jeff Thull. These books deal a lot with how to compete and sell and differentiate yourself... even when selling a seemingly low-value commodity like sand. Another valuable book is Differentiate or Die by Jack Trout and Steve Rivkin.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by nostrademons on Monday October 30, 2017 @05:48PM (#15589218)
If you as an entrepreneur feel that the market is too crowded or commoditized, though, that's a very good signal not to enter it. Not because it actually is too crowded, but because you don't know it well enough to come up with a unique differentiator that will resonate with people actually in that market.

When you stumble across an idea that's actually viable, it feels like "Oh, why has nobody else done this yet? I better get it out there before the competition eats my lunch." It's very likely that you're actually overestimating the threat of competition, but that's because you have domain knowledge that makes the key differentiators of your product obvious to you but inconceivable to other entrepreneurs.

From your perspective, the idea was obvious and different, and that's why people use your product. From an outside perspective, you entered a crowded market and won it by being better than everybody else. The difference is in the level of detail with which you know the market. If from your perspective it appears to be a crowded market and you just need to be better than everybody else, you probably aren't going to be able to build that better product.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by mindcrime on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @10:38AM (#15593544)
If you as an entrepreneur feel that the market is too crowded or commoditized, though, that's a very good signal not to enter it. Not because it actually is too crowded, but because you don't know it well enough to come up with a unique differentiator that will resonate with people actually in that market.

That's a fair point. The key, I think, is understanding when a market is susceptible to entry by another player. But part of making that judgment is understanding the different dimensions along which you can compete, which is why I find The Discipline of Market Leaders so valuable. That was the first book I read that really made the case that it isn't necessarily just about your product. Likewise Crossing The Chasm makes a pretty good case that you can always (well, almost always) segment a market to a degree that there's a place where you can compete.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by mzzter on Monday October 30, 2017 @09:28PM (#15590495)
I agree with this, domain knowledge is underrated. However, sometimes it does take a risk-taking outsider to put several big picture pieces together initially. This isn’t to say one should just stay as an outsider once started. I’m thinking of those like Elon Musk, who have a larger vision and saw an industry as the right fit to make it happen, and then dove deep to learn the domain.

I’m sure there’s something in their diverse backgrounds that intersect in a way that solves a critical problem. For me, the thing that’s missing in their process is actually building a prototype and getting in front of a user to validate what they think they know.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by sixQuarks on Monday October 30, 2017 @05:54PM (#15589273)
Being afraid of a crowded market is one of those counter-intuitive mistakes most people make. It's much easier to find a niche within a crowded market than to try to build something within a small market.

I entered a huge market as a solo founder with no industry experience and now get about 1% of the traffic that the big players with thousands of employees get, and I make a very decent income from it.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by incendiary on Monday October 30, 2017 @06:39PM (#15589612)
Care to add a bit more detail about what market? I am curious
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by sixQuarks on Monday October 30, 2017 @08:43PM (#15590294)
All I'll say is it's a huge consumer market, tons of competition, tons of consumers. When I told friends what market I was going into, their most common response was "but there's already huge players in that market, how can you compete?"
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by ggg9990 on Monday October 30, 2017 @08:23PM (#15590203)
Why would he say? Zero chance of more customers and nonzero chance of more competitors.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by ernsheong on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @03:02AM (#15591518)
Task/project management is one of them I suppose
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by samstave on Monday October 30, 2017 @07:53PM (#15590052)
+1
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by DanielLawhon on Monday October 30, 2017 @07:20PM (#15589869)
This is a great point. A crowded market means there's lots of space for new entrants and that no one has quite figured out how to win the whole thing. Good opportunity to steal and borrow from the best currently in the market and try to consolidate.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by heipei on Monday October 30, 2017 @05:37PM (#15589129)
Recently read this quote:

There’s a well-known adage that “Having no competition may mean you have no market.” The corollary I’d add is that “Having competition doesn’t mean the market is full.”

Seen here: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/how-backblaze-got-started/

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by chiefalchemist on Monday October 30, 2017 @06:11PM (#15589407)
Mark Cuban once said (something like) "If you're looking where everyone else is looking then you're looking in the wrong place."

I think that trumps Parsons. That said, looking at ideas that "didn't work" can be a solid approach. That is, sometimes (for example) the idea was solid but the team failed. The market also changes and some ideas can be ahead of their time (and poorly executed).

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by mindcrime on Monday October 30, 2017 @08:07PM (#15590127)
I think that trumps Parsons.

I have a tremendous degree of regard for mcuban, and I think his advice has merit. But I wouldn't say either "trumps" the other. These pithy sayings are handy, but there's a lot of nuance to both of them (IMO) and the devil is in the details.

Should Google have decided not to pursue search because of Altavista, Dogpile, Magellan, Northern Light, Yahoo, and DMOZ? Should Facebook have eschewed social networking because of Friendster, Myspace, Livejournal, etc?

Sometime just being better than the other guys really is enough.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by jsjohnst on Monday October 30, 2017 @10:48PM (#15590783)
Very minor detail, but Yahoo! didn't have a "search engine" when Google came to be. Yahoo! was still a manually curated "directory" at the time.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by imron on Monday October 30, 2017 @11:05PM (#15590843)
And should Apple have decided not to build a phone... That market was once pretty crowded too.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by chiefalchemist on Monday October 30, 2017 @10:49PM (#15590787)
True.

But I would counter with...Google wasn't a search company, but an advertising platform. And that's where is looked where others were not.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by jsjohnst on Monday October 30, 2017 @10:54PM (#15590804)
Google is now an advertising platform. In the beginning, they were no such thing. If Google hadn't essentially stolen the revenue model AdSense is based on from Overture[0], they might be a very different company today.

[0] https://www.cnet.com/news/overture-sues-google-over-search-p...

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by adventured on Monday October 30, 2017 @09:14PM (#15590430)
To be fair to Parsons, he built a dramatically more successful and larger business than Cuban ever has. Parsons is also a billionaire and worth nearly as much as Cuban.

In terms of sales, GoDaddy is six times the size of the Dallas Mavericks business, and ~20 times the size Broadcast.com was before the dotcom bust.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by jsjohnst on Monday October 30, 2017 @10:51PM (#15590793)
Yahoo bought Broadcast.com for $5.7B in 1999 (pre-dotcom bust) and Godaddy has a market cap of $7.65B as of today, so I am not sure where you are getting 20x bigger valuation from.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by chiefalchemist on Monday October 30, 2017 @10:53PM (#15590801)
True.

But my sense is Cuban could do it again. Parsons benefitted from timing and is likely more of a one trick pony.

Yes, a great and lucrative trick. But still one trick :)

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by blakdawg on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @01:33AM (#15591288)
No, Parsons is at least a 2-trick pony; from Wikipedia:

"In 1984, he founded Parsons Technology in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and began selling MoneyCounts, a home accounting program. In late 1987, Parsons was able to quit his job and focus completely on selling and overseeing growth of MoneyCounts. Eventually, Parsons Technology grew to be a 1,000-employee, privately held company. On September 27, 1994, Parsons completed the sale of Parsons Technology to Intuit, Inc. for $64 million."

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by syedkarim on Monday October 30, 2017 @11:40PM (#15590954)
If Cuban could do it again, why hasn't he?
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by chasebank on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @01:05AM (#15591192)
Parsons is doing it again in a crowded market.

Check out PXG.com

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by shostack on Monday October 30, 2017 @04:40PM (#15588680)
This. If anything you can save time on market validation if you think you can execute or offer something unique that the existing players in the space lack.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by endymi0n on Monday October 30, 2017 @05:04PM (#15588876)
Hits the nail on the head. It's an often cited cliché, but Google wasn't the first search engine and Facebook not the first social network. That works in niches as well if you have the feeling that the current state of the art somehow seems lackluster, i.e. with Adjust in app attribution or Remerge in mobile retarteging. With a lot of mistakes learned but no baggage on board, you can often attack sooner than you'd think with clear focus.

Lastly, if the main battle for a certain segment is over for more than a decade, the incumbents seem to get lazy if they continue dominating the market for too long. Look at eBay for example, or Linked.In - they have stopped innovating and basically get worse with every "Facelift", but there's still considerable demand with a lack of alternatives. It's a long shot, but possible with great execution.

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by samstave on Monday October 30, 2017 @07:56PM (#15590064)
I think that what this team lacks is a comfortable domain expertise in anything other than " making a fortune on wall street" -- which illustrates how little value "money" guys provide...

There is not an SME on their team in any area where they see a problem to fix - they 'only' have money.

they need to augment their team with an SME in an area they are willing to fund

Then here is their next problem:

Who is willing to get behind this team given the statements - There is only one reality - a confident founder who can provide them the vision to build something - and they provide the funding and maybe the CFO... but they may overly think of themselves as "technical" and meddle in the running of such an enterprise - which means doom.

These guys should simply take their funds and invest - not found shit. they will fail and bring down too many people (their employees) if they try...

Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by datavirtue on Monday October 30, 2017 @10:01PM (#15590620)
There are product spaces where one player is seen as having it all wrapped up. Other big players have no stomach to compete but small, agile startups can begin chipping away at their business quite easily. The entrenched single player often treats their current customers and prospective customers like shit.
Re:Ask HN: We have a great team and capital but can't find a... by hyperpallium on Monday October 30, 2017 @08:18PM (#15590165)
also: search was crowded when google entered.