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Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by walls on Sunday October 29, 2017 @10:53AM (#15579525)
> Ultimately argues that Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture, losing its ability to skewer mainstream comedy.

I feel like South Park has managed to do both.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by madeofpalk on Sunday October 29, 2017 @11:52AM (#15579739)
I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion (I've never met anyone in person who agrees with this), but I don't think South Park is good or particularly 'topical'. It's always struck me as fake, untactful and does nothing apart from making people feel smart about themselves.

The Outline (somewhat ironically imho) summed it up when they said "South Park is not subversive":

    For 21 seasons, Trey Parker and Matt Stone have given fake woke white
    people a sense of self-satisfaction, reassuring them that they rise
    above the myopia that grips the residents of South Park; that they
    are subverting the establishment, rather than perpetuating it. Much
    like a joke South Park made about residents of San Francisco: They
    smugly inhaled their own farts.
https://theoutline.com/post/2234/south-park-is-not-subversiv...
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by ahartmetz on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:55PM (#15580052)
The only reason why South Park makes me feel smart about myself is that I watch something that sometimes contradicts my opinions.

I think the author of the Outline article just doesn't like the political stance of the show. The point about Token is in bad faith IMO - he isn't the richest guy in town as a cheap joke, but because changing a few things around from reality makes it easier to have a fresh look at the situation and have new insights. They use this technique all the time. In this case, it separates poor people problems from black people problems.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by coldtea on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:39PM (#15579965)
>The Outline (somewhat ironically imho) summed it up when they said "South Park is not subversive"

I'd say the Outline is the one that does exactly what it accuses South Park of: BS for "fake woke white people". It's just that they want to believe that their white people are more "woke" than the ones watching South Park.

Starting with the BS idea of "high-brow" criticizing what in final analysis is just a funny cartoon show -- this reeks of (real, not imagined) pretentiousness and taking things too seriously itself.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by ivm on Sunday October 29, 2017 @03:05PM (#15580773)
"The main idea that a person tries to convey to others is that he has access to much more prestigious consumption than others think about him. At the same time, he tries to explain to others that their types of consumption are much less prestigious than what they naively think. This is the goal of all social maneuvers. Furthermore, only these discussions generate strong emotions in people."

— Victor Pelevin, "Empire V"

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by madeofpalk on Sunday October 29, 2017 @05:33PM (#15581542)
Yeah, thats why I point it out as being ironic - I often get the feeling that The Outline is contrarian just for the sake of trying to be edgy. It just so happens that this time I agree with the point.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by hindsightbias on Sunday October 29, 2017 @01:09PM (#15580139)
> subversive

Seems like a claim no one ever asserted about SP. Maybe Simpsons (at one point).

"Much like a joke South Park made about residents of San Francisco: They smugly inhaled their own farts."

So the non-subversive series made a subversive episode about their own smug watchers? Or smug writer found that non-subversively applicable to non-woke whites?

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by majewsky on Monday October 30, 2017 @02:02PM (#15587351)
Please do quotes with a ">" line prefix instead of as a code snippet. I have to scroll horizontally as I read each line of text, which is really annoying.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by chillwaves on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:19PM (#15579868)
South Park is awful and sanctimonious at the same time. The fans are also awful and sanctimonious. Nothing about what they do in "satire" is clever.

Your quote nails it. It is for people who want to pretend they are the smartest person in the room, largely because they watch South Park.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by coldtea on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:46PM (#15579999)
Or, you know, is for people who enjoy the humor, in all parts of the world (I'm in Europe) and could not care less about pretending to be "the smartest person in the room".

Not sure about today's episodes (have lost touch), but that was certainly true 20 years ago when we were watching the seasons 1-10 or so.

In my experience people criticizing others for being "pretentious" etc. usually can't fathom anyone liking anything that's either not entirely mainstream or having any second level of reading.

Heck, those people would accuse someone reading e.g. literature (something that billions all over the world have done for millennia) as "pretentious" (as if anything above Stephen King is some kind of crime).

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by BLKNSLVR on Sunday October 29, 2017 @08:49PM (#15582434)
Quoting Bill Hicks:

"I was in Nashville, Tennesee last year. After the show I went to a Waffle House. I'm not proud of it, I was hungry. And I'm alone, I'm eating and I'm reading a book, right? Waitress walks over to me: 'Hey, whatcha readin' for?' Isn't that the weirdest fuckin' question you've ever heard? Not what am I reading, but what am I reading FOR? Well, godammit, ya stumped me! Why do I read? Well . . . hmmm . . . I dunno . . . I guess I read for a lot of reasons and the main one is so I don't end up being a fuckin' waffle waitress."

Bill Hicks would have been described as pretentious by people who disagree with what he says. They'd have also said his humour wasn't clever, it was just insulting, rude, and low-brow. They wouldn't be entirely wrong, but they'd be mostly wrong.

Same goes for South Park or Rick & Morty or The Simpsons. Those who disagree will find ways of protecting their world view against a trickle or tide of inconvenient or uncomfortable alternatives no matter how logically, reasonably, and / or cleverly the alternative is presented.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by Retric on Sunday October 29, 2017 @11:38AM (#15579678)
South Park and Simpsons both suffer from their own past glory. Where exactly do you go next year after woodland criter Christmas?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas

Really, even in off seasons they often have great episodes, they simply suffer by comparison.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by psyc on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:35PM (#15579951)
South Park keeps surprising me with each new season. I died at their portrayal of Zuckerberg.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by oneplane on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:13PM (#15579840)
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by tim333 on Sunday October 29, 2017 @02:19PM (#15580512)
Make Love Not Warcraft was a highlight for me. Maybe it's the geek thing.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by narrator on Sunday October 29, 2017 @01:08PM (#15580130)
South Park has gotten to obsessed with current events lately. Every episode seems like a transparent rehash of recent political news now. I think they are now interested in using the show to push their political opinions where it used to be about being funny and the themes and jokes were more timeless. It could also be that they just ran out of material after 21 seasons so they use current events as a writing crutch.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by eof on Sunday October 29, 2017 @11:15AM (#15579588)
Seems to be South Park is having a bit of a renaissance.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by ahartmetz on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:59PM (#15580074)
It seemed to jump the shark around season 6 (IIRC) when they just turned up the grossness, but became better than ever after that and more or less stayed there.
Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by Trill-I-Am on Sunday October 29, 2017 @02:48PM (#15580663)
South Park is so much worse since it switched to its new, faster production schedule and a more topical focus. The show was better when it focused on the characters, like the LOTR episode or Scott Tenoman Must Die, rather than the topical episodes.

If they’ve run out of non-topical ways to explore the characters, then they should end the show.

Re:When did the golden age of The Simpsons end? by ionised on Monday October 30, 2017 @07:53AM (#15584339)
I have to agree with this.

I can still enjoy the show but the high point for me was the period between seasons 3 to 9, when the surrealism and sense of adventure in the kids learning about the world was at its highest point.

Now it is just entirely topic-of-the-week and while it can do it quite well, sometimes it just falls flat.