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Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by anilakar on Sunday October 29, 2017 @10:15AM (#15579387)
I think that the main point was that docker skills are transferable, i.e. you can expect a new hire to be productive in less time. Too many companies still have in-house build/deploy systems that are probably great for their purpose but don't offer valuable experience that would be usable outside that company.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by notyourday on Sunday October 29, 2017 @10:26AM (#15579432)
In my observation, Docker skills is a modern day ability to type "make", without being able to actually write a Makefile or debug a Makefile.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by noahwilde on Sunday October 29, 2017 @01:32PM (#15580291)
Writing a dockerfile successfully is maybe that. But learning to make a dockerfile should take someone a day to figure out. What the entire movement is about is creating an ecosystem around a common standard for dev ops.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by krizzo on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @11:03PM (#15598539)
I use Makefiles for creating docker files there is an advantage to docker from fat binaries. Both tools exist for a reason, used both wisely you can save time and effort.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by sigjuice on Sunday October 29, 2017 @12:46PM (#15580001)
Yes. Each time you start a container, you are basically saying “make clean” as well.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by notyourday on Sunday October 29, 2017 @02:52PM (#15580690)
Except that people who write software to be put in containers cannot write that Makefile to save their life so for something that should be a ten line dependency they manage to build entire Linux, entire X and all unneeded tool chains.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by tokenizerrr on Sunday October 29, 2017 @11:12AM (#15579580)
Your observation is incorrect.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by Silhouette on Sunday October 29, 2017 @10:39AM (#15579468)
If a company has existing in-house systems that are working well, why should they care about "valuable experience that would be usable outside the company"? Unless you think it's their responsibility to train people so those people can then leave and take the benefit of that training to some other, possibly competing, business?
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by Johnny555 on Sunday October 29, 2017 @03:23PM (#15580879)
The company may not care about building skills for employees that are transferable elsewhere (though good companies do), but they do care about being able to hire people with skills that are applicable to their systems.

While a very large company can get away with building a custom in-house ecosystem that takes months for a new employee to come up to speed on, most companies find it more palatable to use industry standard products/systems that a new employee is already familiar with and can come up to speed on quickly.

Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by Silhouette on Sunday October 29, 2017 @04:43PM (#15581314)
The company may not care about building skills for employees that are transferable elsewhere (though good companies do), but they do care about being able to hire people with skills that are applicable to their systems.

Of course, but who would you rather hire, someone with solid fundamentals who can get up to speed quickly with anything, or someone who job-hops to use the latest buzzword library/framework/language that may have a useful lifetime of just a few years or even less? Given an either/or decision with other things being equal, I would almost always prefer to hire the former, and then use whatever tools worked best for the job regardless of whether they were built in-house or imported. A job-hopping resume full of trendy buzzwords is a big red flag for me.

While a very large company can get away with building a custom in-house ecosystem that takes months for a new employee to come up to speed on

This argument gets made all the time in discussions about frameworks, but I just don't see it. In my entire programming career, I have yet to encounter this hypothetical nightmare architecture that takes months before you can become productive and has no useful documentation or examples even though the entire application is built around it. (YMMV, obviously.)

Being able to get up to speed quickly on a new framework or library is an essential skill for a working professional developer. Whether that is the latest shiny Web World buzzword or something internal in your new employer's environment makes little difference, as long as the internal design is also sensible and reasonably documented -- and if it's not, you have much bigger problems than who you're thinking about hiring next.

Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by noahwilde on Sunday October 29, 2017 @10:51AM (#15579517)
Companies don't have a moral responsibility to do that, but it's a smart retention strategy. If good devs feel like they're learning useless non transferable skills, they'll be more likely to leave for the sake of their career. If they feel like the business is investing in them, they'll be more likely to stay.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by pfranz on Sunday October 29, 2017 @02:06PM (#15580454)
Resume Driven Development can be just as bad for everyone involved.
Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by dwaltrip on Sunday October 29, 2017 @02:59PM (#15580731)
That's a slanted take. Skills and experience that are only useful inside of one specific company are more likely to be less meaningful and effective (almost by definition).

Many highly competent individuals like to understand the fundamentals and first principles of how systems work and how different problems can be solved, and thus find work that provides no transferable knowledge/experience to be less appealing.

Of course, there is a balance here. Sometimes frustrating tasks must be done. In that case, ideally the end goal is sufficiently motivating.

Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by Silhouette on Sunday October 29, 2017 @04:49PM (#15581343)
Many highly competent individuals like to understand the fundamentals and first principles of how systems work and how different problems can be solved, and thus find work that provides no transferable knowledge/experience to be less appealing.

Right, but to those people, whether you use Docker or Kubernetes or custom scripting or a unicorn whose horn magically creates new instances when you need them is mostly just an implementation detail. It's no more interesting than exactly which compiler or DB you use; these are just tools, means to an end. If the differences are significant for your use case, sure, you evaluate and choose accordingly, but then you use the tools to get on with the job. The deep, interesting stuff is almost always in what you can build once you're into that territory.

Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by dwaltrip on Sunday October 29, 2017 @05:46PM (#15581596)
This is definitely true for many people.

However, I do think it's likely there are some fundamental principles at play that make tool 1 better than tool 2 in specific contexts, and I think it is valuable and interesting to explore that.

Perhaps we are getting into the scientist vs. engineer mindset. I would guess, though, that the best engineers undoubtedly have some scientific curiousity helping them excel in their craft.

Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by pfranz on Monday October 30, 2017 @01:06PM (#15586761)
I think the conflict can be that engineers know what they're interested in, scratching their own itch, but that's not always aligned with what's best for the company. The balance is finding both.

One extreme is that I see companies hold on to toxic employees because they're brilliant, even if they are bad for the company long term.

Re:Why would anyone choose Docker over fat binaries? by pfranz on Monday October 30, 2017 @01:02PM (#15586718)
(it does look like we're saying the same thing) Catering to a developer's whim as a retention strategy is not going to end well for anybody. In an ideal situation it can be mutually beneficial (that's what good management is--but that's not only relevant to your tech stack), in the worst case the developer leaves and there's new hotness from 3 years ago that doesn't work very well and nobody wants to touch.